A note to OP: using baity submission headlines in HN is counterproductive, as it’ll just get the submission quickly flagged. (And per HN rules, the source headline should be changed if the source is baity)
No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting
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Re: No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting
#12Do we know if pinkifying works? I mean, of course as a male I find it hard to support increasing the number of purple headings in the world but presumably people do it because they've had success - right? Just because mature, grown women (who have already been selected for liking the paint tech already has enough to learn about it) aren't motivated by pink and flowery stuff doesn't mean it can't be the weird glitch i…
My daughter loves Legos because of “Lego Friends”. So I think it does work. Just like my son is attracted to things with swords and explosions. The hook matters.
Re: No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting
#13I have noticed that some women only tech events tend to go very lightly into technical matters and lean more towards the social justice side of things and I can very easily see just how unappealing such events would be.
No, I'm pretty sure its "Code like a girl". That's the name of the submitted and is the completed form of said URL.
I'm also reasonably sure that referring to women professionals as "girls" is also one of those things you shouldn't do.
Right hand, meet left hand. These are adults, and they happen to be male/female/white/black/asian/whatever. (Unless we're actually talking about k-9 school aged females. Then girl is accurate.)
Edit: I don't get the downmod. The first thing to change is our language. They are professionals, not girls. When our language entails using that modifier, it sets the emotion starting at that point. So, set the barrier to that of men, unless you think "son" and "boy" are acceptable ways to address other male professionals.
Re: No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting
#14I honestly feel like framing the debate around surface elements like color (of all things) is worse than useless, and would rather people focus on what tech-y groups have historically attracted young girls with no problem - neopets(1), for example.
(The linked article below focuses on a few things that really resonates with me - emotional security paired with the freedom to play and hack, not having to ~present~ a gender to participate, having an aesthetic flexibility around your own spaces, etc.)
(1) http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/features/neopets-a-look-i...
Re: No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting
#15"YOU NEED TO TRY HARDER TO APPEAL TO MINORITY GROUPS." - 2 seconds later - "STOP USING STEREOTYPES TO APPEAL TO MINORITY GROUPS, IT'S OFFENSIVE." I mean, I understand the sentiment, but I can also see why many industry professionals begin to think this sort of thing is a catch-22 where smug criticisms will be levied, regardless of conscientiousness.
"YOU NEED TO TRY HARDER TO APPEAL TO MINORITY GROUPS by not stereotyping, patronizing, abusing them and creating a hostile environment"
There, I fixed it for you. You can appeal to minority groups without using stereotypes.
Re: No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting
#16"YOU NEED TO TRY HARDER TO APPEAL TO MINORITY GROUPS." - 2 seconds later - "STOP USING STEREOTYPES TO APPEAL TO MINORITY GROUPS, IT'S OFFENSIVE." I mean, I understand the sentiment, but I can also see why many industry professionals begin to think this sort of thing is a catch-22 where smug criticisms will be levied, regardless of conscientiousness.
It's hard to question cognitive biases without invoking said bias or over-correcting.
"Stop falling for the gamblers' fallacy!"
"Stop calling everything with a low probability of return gambling!"
Re: No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting
#17"YOU NEED TO TRY HARDER TO APPEAL TO MINORITY GROUPS." - 2 seconds later - "STOP USING STEREOTYPES TO APPEAL TO MINORITY GROUPS, IT'S OFFENSIVE." I mean, I understand the sentiment, but I can also see why many industry professionals begin to think this sort of thing is a catch-22 where smug criticisms will be levied, regardless of conscientiousness.
The only way here to "Win" is not to play the game.
Catering to minorities = good until its not. And that fine line for some is blatant racism/sexism/ageism for others.
Going on merit and projects also has its own downside - the claim there is the disadvantaged don't have a way to prove themselves due to inherent barriers against them. Seems accurate, but again, we have to discuss and not discuss....
Edit: I've seen these arguments and discussions at least a dozen of times on HN, in varying ways. And it all amounts to "Well, we shouldn't do bad, but bad's already being done and we can't fix it alone." Every time, I see very little constructive discussion how to make things better for all - it usually devolves down to low-grade flamewars and simmers up until dang and other mods do something.
So, are there actual, constructive things we employees can do, to make these situations better? I know I try to watch my language, and try to treat everyone with respect and dignity. What else is there to do?
Re: No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting
#18I agree with this, girls that like coding aren't usually very interested in girly stuff. I don't think you can lure feminine girls into coding just by pinkifying it. All of this is just demeaning the profession.
> girls that like coding aren't usually very interested in girly stuff
You might have a causality problem here. For example, my daughter, who is definitely at the girly girl end of the spectrum sees no problem with being a lawyer or a medical doctor. That probably wouldn't have been the case a generation or so ago (at least here in the UK).
> All of this is just demeaning the profession
As the father of said girl, and being acquainted with a lot of her peers, I can reliably say that if our profession became more attractive to them it would not be demeaning the profession in any way whatsoever.
Re: No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting
#19Pinkifying to appeal to women...sure, it's probably patronizing and wrong-headed.
Pinkifying to appeal to young girls...absolutely need more of this. Almost every engineer I've ever spoken to on the topic had Legos or some other toy that involves combining building blocks of some sort into a larger whole when they were a child. We absolutely need to pinkify these toys to build engineering instincts in young girls if we want to see them gravitate towards engineering careers in later life.
Re: No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting
#20Do we know if pinkifying works? I mean, of course as a male I find it hard to support increasing the number of purple headings in the world but presumably people do it because they've had success - right? Just because mature, grown women (who have already been selected for liking the paint tech already has enough to learn about it) aren't motivated by pink and flowery stuff doesn't mean it can't be the weird glitch i…
My daughter loves Legos because of “Lego Friends”. So I think it does work. Just like my son is attracted to things with swords and explosions. The hook matters.
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