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South Korea considers cryptocurrency tax

reuters.com

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Re: South Korea considers cryptocurrency tax

#101

Post by rudiger »

At its core, the current cryptocurrency craze is simply an unprecedented wealth transfer to China from the rest of the world.

Until the end of 2013, Bitcoin was predominantly traded for US dollars. However, after the crash of 2013, miners consolidated in China and Bitcoin mostly traded for Chinese yuan[1]. At the start of 2017, regulators in China cracked down on digital currency exchanges[2] and trading quickly moved to Japanese yen and, more recently, South Korean won[3].

All of the early buyers are selling. This won't end well.

[1]: http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-trading-china-yuan-re...

[2]: http://fortune.com/2017/01/05/bitcoin-plunge-china-currency/

[3]: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-bitcoin-volume/

Re: South Korea considers cryptocurrency tax

#102

Post by DennisP »

exelius wrote: post #32
dmichulke wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a)So taking on debt pretending to do something good is fine? What if I say they do something bad with that debt too, is it still OK? b) Interest rates are being paid for decades via taxes, money that could have been put to use much better. I'd say it's similar enough and don't think "it works differently" is an argument here

It works differently because the US can just issue more currency to pay off debt. Honestly sovereign debt is a currency manipulation / money supply tool more than anything.

Yes but sooner or later we all pay when they do that.

Re: South Korea considers cryptocurrency tax

#103

Post by jsutton »

pedrocr wrote: post #35
Agebor wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that speculative on the long term IMO. In the 80s and 90s, we found a way of connecting many computers together and here we are. Now we found a way to create programmable: trust, value, scarcity and incentives. If that's not going to change the society over the next 20-30 years, I don't know what will. Only land ownership could remain in the space of interest of governments then (being immovable).

>Now we found a way to create programmable: trust, value, scarcity and incentives. I've seen variations of this argument repeated often. It sounds sexy but then when you probe it's hard to nail down something big enough we can't currently do that becomes possible. Financial markets are already very sophisticated and if anything retail investors are still not using the great products out there as much as they should (…

Hundreds of years ago, you could transfer money across the world just like you can now. It would just take having the right connections and a lot of time. Does that mean our global banking system is unnecessary?

Bitcoin et al unlock a potential economic powerhouse the likes of which can be comparable to the internet. Just because you can do mostly everything that blockchain tech provides without one, doesn't mean it isn't incredibly valuable.

Re: South Korea considers cryptocurrency tax

#104

Post by planteen »

abcdefghijklm wrote: post #99
planteen wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half of Americans have However, around 64% of Americans own their home [1]. How many of them are taking out HELOCs against their homes to buy lottery tickets? Once concern is people are taking out HELOCs for crypto speculation. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home-ownership_in_the_United_S...

I think that stat means 64% of Americans don't rent. Homeowner is not the right term for most of that 64%, because most have a mortgage balance, which when subtracted from their Edit: The stat actually means 64% of homes are occupied by their owner. But "owner" is still misleading, as the article linked to above says: "However, homeowner equity has fallen steadily since World War II and is now less than 50% of the va…

I'm not saying that is a good situation or the picture is rosy. The real question here is one of semantics - do you include home equity in "life savings"? I would say yes. And using a HELOC for a crypto or lottery tickets are both bad things IMO.

Re: South Korea considers cryptocurrency tax

#105

Post by WJW »

glorkk wrote: post #64
thkim wrote: post #48

Bitcoin and cryptos ought to be banned for good. Cryptocurrencies are scam and outright bubble that will bring down the world economy. There is no currency without an authority to guarantee its value. Cryptos are pure bubble. If there is any good in this thing, it's ease of transaction, which is a question of underlying technology - it has nothing to do with lack of authority or decentralized scheme that cryptocurren…

> Bitcoin and cryptos ought to be banned for good. Serious question: how would you go about “banning” cryotocurrencies? The most you can do is close exchanges which would make crypto harder to acquire and liquidate.

_If_ I wanted do this (and was a government): - Prohibit trading of cryptocurrencies, punishable by several years in prison if caught. Structure it so that you can personally go to prison even if you did it as part of a business. This should 'discourage' casual investors. - Pass a law stating banks can lose their banking license if they allow transactions from/to crypto exchanges.

Basically, declare cryptocurrencies to be similar to hard drugs or something and follow the same playbook. Obviously the real hardcore crypto lovers will still keep using it, and it will also not deter criminals who were outside of the 'regular' system anyway. But if you have a functioning law enforcement system like most western countries, you could certainly keep cryptocurrencies from playing any large role in your economy.

Re: South Korea considers cryptocurrency tax

#106

Post by WJW »

mtgx wrote: post #85
kazagistar wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but unlike drugs or prostitution, aggressive police action doesn't harm any underprivileged classes, but rather a bunch of affluent tax evaders.

Do you think most people owning cryptocurrencies are affluent tax evaders?

Yes? It's certainly not the people struggling to buy food if that's what you are implying.

Re: South Korea considers cryptocurrency tax

#107

Post by pjc50 »

rudiger wrote: post #101

At its core, the current cryptocurrency craze is simply an unprecedented wealth transfer to China from the rest of the world. Until the end of 2013, Bitcoin was predominantly traded for US dollars. However, after the crash of 2013, miners consolidated in China and Bitcoin mostly traded for Chinese yuan[1]. At the start of 2017, regulators in China cracked down on digital currency exchanges[2] and trading quickly move…

I thought a lot of it was capital flight - Chinese nationals moving yuan out of the country, but to USD assets under their control, rather than an actual influx of wealth to China.

After all, we have no real idea of "where" the bitcoin is held, if that means anything at all.

Re: South Korea considers cryptocurrency tax

#108

Post by SyneRyder »

tomtimtall wrote: post #80
fosco wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is far easier to transfer 10 million dollars wworth of bitcoin than it is 10 million of gold. this comparisons are _not_ doing either bitcoin nor gold justice. bitcoin is far more liquid, accessible and usable than gold ever will be. I will start calling it Internet Liquid Gold... because while the transactions might be slow, being able to transfer it across continents multiple times back and forth is possible bef…

People don't move gold around. They trade gold IOU's which can be transferred faster than bitcoin, with far lower fees.

Occasionally they do move gold physically, like when Germany moved $27 Billion of gold from the United States & France back to Germany:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/23/germanys-central-bank-just-s...

Re: South Korea considers cryptocurrency tax

#109

Post by arcticfox »

KasianFranks wrote: post #100
kgwgk wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing of value is being created, at least not of the magnitude of the apparent “value” of the bubble, so making money off bitcoin is by definition getting money from someone else. Clearly it cannot work forever, and those who are left holding the bag won’t be happy.

You mean like stocks and all other derivatives and equities including the US dollar and other currencies on Forex. Smart.

Except stocks represent ownership in real companies making real products. If one person owns 100% of a company and there is zero trading, it's still an extremely valuable property. If one person owns 100% of a crypto, it is worthless.

Re: South Korea considers cryptocurrency tax

#110

Post by seanmcdirmid »

rudiger wrote: post #101

At its core, the current cryptocurrency craze is simply an unprecedented wealth transfer to China from the rest of the world. Until the end of 2013, Bitcoin was predominantly traded for US dollars. However, after the crash of 2013, miners consolidated in China and Bitcoin mostly traded for Chinese yuan[1]. At the start of 2017, regulators in China cracked down on digital currency exchanges[2] and trading quickly move…

I think you meant from china to the rest of the world. The opposite direction isn’t very difficult to achieve via FDI or a simple bank transfer.
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