Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 358 posts

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#211

Post by imgabe »

germinalphrase wrote: post #153

TLDR: As a high school level teacher, this would be less of a problem if teachers had stronger enforcement powers. Since we often don't - I would strongly favor a ban. If students need a computer, we have them available all day, every day. As a high school level teacher, I appreciate the attitude that there are amazing opportunities for learning and skill development with computers. I agree with this wholeheartedly.…

Would it not be possible to have a box at the front of the room that everyone has to put their phone in when they come to class, then they can get it back after class is over?

If anyone's ever been in a secure facility, they have little mail slots, sometimes locking with a key you can take, to store your phone while you go inside. Seems like we could just put one of these in every classroom. That should take care of the liability issue.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#212

Post by Retric »

_m8fo wrote: post #201
Retric wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids are not so binary. Plenty of schools have random assignment for students yet teacher A's students vastly outperform teacher B's students. Sure, the best student in B is generally better than the worst student in A but they are still generally behind the best in A.

Do you have any research to back this up? I'm curious.

Yes, I am not sure what part you want support for. But, if this interests you I suggest you do a little research on your own.

(http://www.centerforpubliceducation.org/Main-Menu/Staffingst...)

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#213

Post by devmunchies »

criddell wrote: post #188
germinalphrase wrote: post #153

TLDR: As a high school level teacher, this would be less of a problem if teachers had stronger enforcement powers. Since we often don't - I would strongly favor a ban. If students need a computer, we have them available all day, every day. As a high school level teacher, I appreciate the attitude that there are amazing opportunities for learning and skill development with computers. I agree with this wholeheartedly.…

At my kids' school, they encourage appropriate cell phone use in the school. For example, if there is a homework assignment on the board, rather than wait for everybody to copy it down, kids are told to take a picture of the board. They also insist on the kids using some kind of calendar to track everything and most kids use their phone calendar. There's some kind of Twitter-like service that is used for teacher-stud…

> For example, if there is a homework assignment on the board, rather than wait for everybody to copy it down, kids are told to take a picture of the board

just post the assignment online. Not a reason to allow phones in class.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#214

Post by sridca »

eigenschwarz wrote: post #208
sridca wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same can be said for video games. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170622103824.h...

Definitely true. As pointed out in your link, the redeeming thing about complex video games (e.g. an immersive RTS or a complex level designed and puzzle filled FPS) is it causes advantageous adaptions in the brain, although at the expense of potentially becoming addicting with too much nonstop playing. We can decouple these effects in video games partly by limiting continuous playtime; it would be interesting to see…

Don't forget the social aspect of that addiction, which is arguably the most insidious aspect of it all:

> We found that social gamers were willing to spend a lot of time and money on the game because by playing the game, they could: get an enhanced self-concept and self-efficacy, get a sense of community belonging, and distract themselves from the challenges in their lives.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40812-016-0025-x

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#215

Post by mschuster91 »

Jeez. I had not thought the Macron government to be so backwards. IMHO there are two issues at place:

1. teachers not adapting to new times. In ye olde days, teachers had the attention of the students basically guaranteed (as the only thing students could do instead of paying attention to the teacher was drawing messages on papers and passing them around). That frontal instruction is bullshit and should be a thing of the past could be ignored. Now, however, teachers have to compete with the Internet for the attention of the students - but instead of embracing the change and throw some rotten traditions over board, they ban phones. LOL.

2. Mobbing/cyberbullying. I can understand that schools want to tackle this problem, but banning smartphones is a symbolic measure. The students will still use closed Whatsapp/FB/whatever groups after school, without the school being able to interfere in any way. Proper prevention measures, like teaching the students what the effects of social media can be, provide counseling, social workers, etc. - all that costs money, a lot of it. And so politicians rather ban smartphones so that the (rightfully) concerned parents shut up without having to spend huge sums of money.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#216

Post by aluhut »

greglindahl wrote: post #113
aluhut wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's got nothing to do with rules. It used to be common sense when I grew up. Also, there are bonding mechanisms in all kids that require feedback from a parent in their early years. This is where your parents attention is necessary. This is also where a kid can develop certain problems if they don't get this attention. My SO sees those failures of zombie parents every day at work. The only thing worse is the parents…

Huh. I spent plenty of time with my parents, and plenty of time without. Yet today's "common sense" says that almost everyone in my generation was raised by wolves.

It's common sense that exaggerations and selective ignorance kills discussions.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#217

Post by gruez »

mschuster91 wrote: post #215

Jeez. I had not thought the Macron government to be so backwards. IMHO there are two issues at place: 1. teachers not adapting to new times. In ye olde days, teachers had the attention of the students basically guaranteed (as the only thing students could do instead of paying attention to the teacher was drawing messages on papers and passing them around). That frontal instruction is bullshit and should be a thing of…

> Now, however, teachers have to compete with the Internet for the attention of the students - but instead of embracing the change and throw some rotten traditions over board, they ban phones. LOL.

how can the average teacher compete with social networking sites that have been engineered specifically to maximize engagement?

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#218

Post by Viliam1234 »

saberlynx wrote: post #141
avip wrote: post #29

Sounds like pure common sense to me. Schools are implicitly responsible for the overall well-being of kids. Many schools ban smoking, sugary snacks/drinks, some dressing style (or non-dressing), makeup. Many parents would love to send their kids to schools without a phone, this will empower and support them.

Sure. It’s pure common sense. And parents can totally send their kids to school without a phone. I agree with everything in this legislation save for the fact that it’s a legislation. My future kid wouldn’t even get a smartphone until age 15, if I keep my mindset for this long. But do we live in an age where parental and community authority are so diminished that parents need the power of the state to bolster their d…

> But do we live in an age where parental and community authority are so diminished that parents need the power of the state to bolster their discipline of their kids?

It's not that dramatic; it's just that at school the parents are absent, and the teachers' authority is typically undermined by the parents -- congratulations if you are not one of them, but in such case I am simply talking about your kid's classmates' parents.

Try to limit the children's freedom in any way (e.g. take away their smartphones if they play Angry Birds or browse Facebook during the lessons), and at least one of the parents will complain and threaten to sue the school. The easy way out for school administration is to let kids do whatever they want to, and formally require teachers to maintain discipline in the classroom while simultaneously forbidding them to do anything that could actually have an impact.

The best strategy for a parent is to try finding a school when parents of other children are not idiots. That is typically easier said than done. What I would recommend is trying to find something unusual -- for example I would choose Montessori education for my kids; not because I think it is a superior option per se, but simply because it is not the default option, and I expect the most stupid parents to go for the default option, so this is how I would try avoiding them. Problem is, if this strategy becomes too popular, many of the idiots will choose it too, simply because they heard somewhere it was the right thing to do. (It's complicated because some of the idiots also want to get the best education for their kids; they just can't stop themselves from trying to undermine it the moment someone provides negative feedback to their kid.)

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#219

Post by ChiliDogSwirl »

watwut wrote: post #115
zelos wrote: post #36

Can we limit them for use by parents as well? Playgrounds seem to be the place parents go to look at Facebook while their kids yell "look at me mummy" forlornly.

And on another thread, everyone complains about parents following childen around on playground and not allowing them a little bit of independence.

Any stick is good enough to beat parents with, if you're a childless 20-something on a tech forum.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#220

Post by surge »

germinalphrase wrote: post #153

TLDR: As a high school level teacher, this would be less of a problem if teachers had stronger enforcement powers. Since we often don't - I would strongly favor a ban. If students need a computer, we have them available all day, every day. As a high school level teacher, I appreciate the attitude that there are amazing opportunities for learning and skill development with computers. I agree with this wholeheartedly.…

It'd be kind of neat if the phones had a mode similar to the "car mode" on Apple phones, where it goes into a DnD mode and becomes inconvenient to unlock and use when at a certain location. So a kid can use the phone, but texting or other features are harder to access in a non-obvious manner and notifications are muted. Almost like being in Airplane mode by default except during in between class breaks.

They are useful tools, but even outside of school they constantly suck away our attention, and apps are designed for this, the constant distraction needs to be curbed, not their use as a pocket computer.

Post reply on HN