France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools • Hacker News Board

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#161

Post by watwut » Wed, Dec 13, 2017, 1:35 PM UTC

jasonkester wrote: post #134

AndrewDucker wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It made me long for the pre-smartphone days in which I imagine travelers were forced to socialize with each other." Having lived through the horrors of the pre-smartphone days, I can tell you that this wasn't the case. See, for instance: https://i.pinimg.com/474x/1a/a1/7b/1aa17b28aad6df78a2e1d2016... or https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/540/1*U36hBj8i-C7JJJxS4M...

No, he's right. Until about 10 years ago, meeting people was an integral part of travel. You'd be essentially cut off from your friends back home (apart from maybe a daily email session), so you made new friends wherever you went. You'd go down to the common area of the hostel (or the beach bar near your bungalow in SE Asia), and strike up a conversation with pretty much anybody, since everybody there was traveling a…

"You'd go down to the common area of the hostel (or the beach bar near your bungalow in SE Asia), and strike up a conversation with pretty much anybody, since everybody there was traveling as well."

Never ever done that and I did travelled alone a bit. I know one person pulling this off, all other people I know would not have done so. Once someone tried to befriend me too much, but I found that uncomfortable (personality mismatch mostly).

For that matter, most people travelled with friends or friends groups and not alone.

It is cool that you was such person, but most people were not.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#162

Post by coldtea » Wed, Dec 13, 2017, 1:38 PM UTC

philamonster wrote: post #160

germinalphrase wrote: post #153

TLDR: As a high school level teacher, this would be less of a problem if teachers had stronger enforcement powers. Since we often don't - I would strongly favor a ban. If students need a computer, we have them available all day, every day. As a high school level teacher, I appreciate the attitude that there are amazing opportunities for learning and skill development with computers. I agree with this wholeheartedly.…

>They are not, generally, breaking their attention away from class for some other kind of educational outlet (for which I am already fairly lenient when appropriate). They are sending their friends snaps, plays both games, and texting. I'm all for moderation but the kids I have come across in my K-12 experience, if they're not paying attention, are generally pretty bored out of their minds with whatever else is going…

>* I'm all for moderation but the kids I have come across in my K-12 experience, if they're not paying attention, are generally pretty bored out of their minds with whatever else is going on in the classroom. Which begs the question; whose fault could that possibly be? The child's or the adult in the room?*

Well, the kids are supposed to learn things, not to be entertained.

Sometimes the two can coincide, and it's great and inspiring when it does, but the idea that learning must be an entertaining activity only does a disservice to learning, and hampers the progress of the learners. Sometimes it's just hard practice with no fun, and it's done for the sake of learning, not for giggles.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#163

Post by pixl97 » Wed, Dec 13, 2017, 1:42 PM UTC

j9461701 wrote: post #132

Bainos wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Assuming usage is properly curated by parents or other authority figures, smart devices can be some of the most powerful tools for educating children this side of a Greek tutor. Authority figures in school do not have the power or authority to watch over how the children use their phones. Children that want to information dive on a specific subject are free to do so at home, where their parents can (assuming they a…

>Authority figures in school do not have the power or authority to watch over how the children use their phones. They already do. Accessing certain websites is prohibited (e.g. pornographic stuff), as is filming other students without their consent. A reasonable compromise would be a "scholastic firewall" - the children can have their phones, but can only access educational material on school grounds and not facebook…

Yea, because that's how phones, when they are on the cell network and not local wireless actually work.

There are computers with access to the internet at school. They don't have full internet access, they have the scholastic firewall you speak of.

This thread is madness. Instead of a cell phone ban, it's like we are talking about all computers being banned from school.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#164

Post by pixl97 » Wed, Dec 13, 2017, 1:45 PM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #71

abootstrapper wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The school has a phone in case of an emergency. So do the teachers.

Not on the way to and from school

Neither did any generation of kids since about the beginning of kids going to school. I don't think the world will end if they don't have it.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#165

Post by JeanMarcS » Wed, Dec 13, 2017, 1:49 PM UTC

avip wrote: post #29

Sounds like pure common sense to me. Schools are implicitly responsible for the overall well-being of kids. Many schools ban smoking, sugary snacks/drinks, some dressing style (or non-dressing), makeup. Many parents would love to send their kids to schools without a phone, this will empower and support them.

Why did I had to scroll that far to finally find someone talking about the parents ! (or maybe I missed it)

For me I find it astonishing that state have to make laws for common sense. When did it made sense to parents to let their kids go to school with a tool known for its distraction impact ?

Some years ago, would you have send your kids to school with a portable tv ?

The lack of parent education and common sense is the real problem for me here.

For the record, I’m french and speaking from a french point of view, but I guess it’s the same in most countries.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#166

Post by 110011 » Wed, Dec 13, 2017, 1:53 PM UTC

mgraczyk wrote: post #131

110011 wrote: post #121

The way mobile phones are being used in the present day, by both children and adults alike, is unhealthy and at the very least it can be said that the potential ill effects are not very well understood. Much like how research into the ill effects of smoking were not properly understood during its heydays in the early 20th century when it was a sign of social sophistication and took many decades before a conclusive li…

Just because something annoys you or you find it conflicts with your values does not make it unhealthy. I remember life before smartphones. I remember boredom. It sucked. I would never go back to the agonizing pain of sitting in the DMV for three ours or standing in line at a grocery store just for some "missed moment" where I study the shitty tabloids in line or DoT pamphlets. Romanticising the past is not new. Whet…

I am not romanticising the past. I am not advocating to stop using smartphones altogether. What I am saying is that people by and large don't seem to use it in a healthy way.

It seems many of the folks are using smartphones exactly in the way you describe- as an ill defined and uncertain but good enough means to plug some passing hole in your day. Is that good? I don't know. Are you losing out on using that time to prioritize what matters to you? Probably. The most damning thing about this is that you are constantly reaching for something with no fixed outcome planned in advance and allow that to temporarily occupy your mental space (if I wanted to exaggerate I'd say "hijack your mind"). This does not look like a good thing to me.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#167

Post by dpeck » Wed, Dec 13, 2017, 1:55 PM UTC

saberlynx wrote: post #141

avip wrote: post #29

Sounds like pure common sense to me. Schools are implicitly responsible for the overall well-being of kids. Many schools ban smoking, sugary snacks/drinks, some dressing style (or non-dressing), makeup. Many parents would love to send their kids to schools without a phone, this will empower and support them.

Sure. It’s pure common sense. And parents can totally send their kids to school without a phone. I agree with everything in this legislation save for the fact that it’s a legislation. My future kid wouldn’t even get a smartphone until age 15, if I keep my mindset for this long. But do we live in an age where parental and community authority are so diminished that parents need the power of the state to bolster their d…

Public school is a function/instrument of the state, isn’t it?

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#168

Post by welly » Wed, Dec 13, 2017, 1:56 PM UTC

mgraczyk wrote: post #131

110011 wrote: post #121

The way mobile phones are being used in the present day, by both children and adults alike, is unhealthy and at the very least it can be said that the potential ill effects are not very well understood. Much like how research into the ill effects of smoking were not properly understood during its heydays in the early 20th century when it was a sign of social sophistication and took many decades before a conclusive li…

Just because something annoys you or you find it conflicts with your values does not make it unhealthy. I remember life before smartphones. I remember boredom. It sucked. I would never go back to the agonizing pain of sitting in the DMV for three ours or standing in line at a grocery store just for some "missed moment" where I study the shitty tabloids in line or DoT pamphlets. Romanticising the past is not new. Whet…

With all due respect, I think this says a lot about you if you honestly equate boredom as pre-smartphones. Millions upon millions of us led a boredom-free life prior to the smart and/or cellular/mobile phone. And there's far more to do these days.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#169

Post by gaius » Wed, Dec 13, 2017, 1:58 PM UTC

There is literally no reason for an under-18 to have a mobile phone at all.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#170

Post by philamonster » Wed, Dec 13, 2017, 1:58 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #162

philamonster wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They are not, generally, breaking their attention away from class for some other kind of educational outlet (for which I am already fairly lenient when appropriate). They are sending their friends snaps, plays both games, and texting. I'm all for moderation but the kids I have come across in my K-12 experience, if they're not paying attention, are generally pretty bored out of their minds with whatever else is going…

>* I'm all for moderation but the kids I have come across in my K-12 experience, if they're not paying attention, are generally pretty bored out of their minds with whatever else is going on in the classroom. Which begs the question; whose fault could that possibly be? The child's or the adult in the room?* Well, the kids are supposed to learn things, not to be entertained. Sometimes the two can coincide, and it's gr…

Since when is just being able to hold a student's attention 75% of the time entertainment? It's much more nuanced than my original comment, I understand, but the assumption that simply removing the device (which I agree is the way to go) will suddenly get kids involved in their learning doesn't take into account all the missteps that occur before the child or teacher enter that classroom. Whether it's staffing, fiscal planning at an admin level that reduces actual classroom instruction, lack of classroom management PD for staff that may need it or a permissive parent.