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France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

theguardian.com

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Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#131

Post by mgraczyk »

110011 wrote: post #121

The way mobile phones are being used in the present day, by both children and adults alike, is unhealthy and at the very least it can be said that the potential ill effects are not very well understood. Much like how research into the ill effects of smoking were not properly understood during its heydays in the early 20th century when it was a sign of social sophistication and took many decades before a conclusive li…

Just because something annoys you or you find it conflicts with your values does not make it unhealthy.

I remember life before smartphones. I remember boredom. It sucked. I would never go back to the agonizing pain of sitting in the DMV for three ours or standing in line at a grocery store just for some "missed moment" where I study the shitty tabloids in line or DoT pamphlets.

Romanticising the past is not new. Whether it's television, hot showers, or smartphones, there will always be cynics who wish a simpler life on the rest of us.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#132

Post by j9461701 »

Bainos wrote: post #122
j9461701 wrote: post #33

>The minister said the ban was also a “public health message to families”, adding: “It’s good that children are not too often, or even at all, in front of a screen before the age of seven.” I remember being a little kid and wanting to learn about space and submarines and sharks, and not being able to. I'd read my local library's books on those subjects, but I lived in a little town with a puny library so quickly exha…

> Assuming usage is properly curated by parents or other authority figures, smart devices can be some of the most powerful tools for educating children this side of a Greek tutor. Authority figures in school do not have the power or authority to watch over how the children use their phones. Children that want to information dive on a specific subject are free to do so at home, where their parents can (assuming they a…

>Authority figures in school do not have the power or authority to watch over how the children use their phones.

They already do. Accessing certain websites is prohibited (e.g. pornographic stuff), as is filming other students without their consent.

A reasonable compromise would be a "scholastic firewall" - the children can have their phones, but can only access educational material on school grounds and not facebook/youtube/twitter/instagram/etc.

>Children that want to information dive on a specific subject are free to do so at home

Because as we well know, school is not an appropriate place for learning!

I kid, of course, but I can't help but feel all this ban would accomplish in practical terms is punishing the curious and nerdy disproportionately.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#133

Post by dazc »

watwut wrote: post #127
dazc wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former introverted kid, I never liked being forced into situations where I might have to actually talk to some other person, especially of the opposite sex. But, I can look back and be grateful there were no smartphones to hide behind, otherwise there are some hang-ups I might never have gotten over.

Honestly, I don't get where special hung on talking with opposite gender comes from. Never had that problem, maybe because I was never in strictly single sex peer group. But something that would allow me to hide a bit in elementary scool would be welcome. I did not learned anything about communication when forced into those situations, I was just lonely and miserable.

'I don't get where special hung on talking with opposite gender comes from.'

Growing up with 3 sisters and learning at an early age what mental cruelty is.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#134

Post by jasonkester »

AndrewDucker wrote: post #97
cspags wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not hurt their studies, but perhaps their social skills. I recently stayed at a hostel, and when I first walked in I noticed how in the common area almost every single person was alone on their phone. It made me long for the pre-smartphone days in which I imagine travelers were forced to socialize with each other. While school lunch is a slightly different situation, I think it still applies that without phone…

"It made me long for the pre-smartphone days in which I imagine travelers were forced to socialize with each other." Having lived through the horrors of the pre-smartphone days, I can tell you that this wasn't the case. See, for instance: https://i.pinimg.com/474x/1a/a1/7b/1aa17b28aad6df78a2e1d2016... or https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/540/1*U36hBj8i-C7JJJxS4M...

No, he's right. Until about 10 years ago, meeting people was an integral part of travel.

You'd be essentially cut off from your friends back home (apart from maybe a daily email session), so you made new friends wherever you went. You'd go down to the common area of the hostel (or the beach bar near your bungalow in SE Asia), and strike up a conversation with pretty much anybody, since everybody there was traveling as well.

Now I can, sadly, verify that backpackers spend their common-area time on their phones, going about their usual business with their normal "friends". With the only difference being that they're now trying to upload photos that will make those friends jealous enough to leave a like.

I think I liked it better before.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#135

Post by jacquesm »

dazc wrote: post #123
isostatic wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a kid in the 80s I didn't respect authority because I read Enid Blyton books (written in the 40s), who taught me that the local police were at best benign, but more likely incompetent.

'...the local police were at best benign, but more likely incompetent.' True, but it didn't matter because the worst thing that could happen to you as a child would to be kidnapped by smugglers, tied up and left in a cave to die. Thankfully though, it was OK for kids to carry knives back then so you could always escape and run away...

Heh. You just made me realize that the pocket knife I used to carry would probably land me in jail today if I was ever frisked. And back then nobody cared at all.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#136

Post by jacquesm »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #52
jageen wrote: post #43

I think they must specify they banned smart mobile phones OR mobile phones By reading all comments I think problem is in smart mobile phones. which have extra features for user entertainment which also act as distraction (for student during study) Before coming to any decision we should not forgot that phone can also use as medium of communication with our guardian in emergency and emergency is something we could not…

Dumbphones had games and entertainment features since probably the first model ever released. And let's not forget that any form of communication is itself entertainment, especially in school context. > Before coming to any decision we should not forgot that phone can also use as medium of communication with our guardian in emergency and emergency is something we could not predict. Technically they can, but schools u…

> Dumbphones had games and entertainment features since probably the first model ever released.

My first cell phone was a Motorola Microtac flip phone and it only did calls, it did not even have an address book. But the first Nokia I had already had 'snake' on it (in monochrome, on a very low res screen).

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#137

Post by misev »

mgraczyk wrote: post #131
110011 wrote: post #121

The way mobile phones are being used in the present day, by both children and adults alike, is unhealthy and at the very least it can be said that the potential ill effects are not very well understood. Much like how research into the ill effects of smoking were not properly understood during its heydays in the early 20th century when it was a sign of social sophistication and took many decades before a conclusive li…

Just because something annoys you or you find it conflicts with your values does not make it unhealthy. I remember life before smartphones. I remember boredom. It sucked. I would never go back to the agonizing pain of sitting in the DMV for three ours or standing in line at a grocery store just for some "missed moment" where I study the shitty tabloids in line or DoT pamphlets. Romanticising the past is not new. Whet…

Boredom can be uncomfortable, but it is not necessarily bad. It boosts creativity for example [1]. Not sure what are the benefits of mindless browsing on the phone then, if we suppose that it's mainly about killing boredom.

1. https://www.fastcompany.com/3042046/the-science-behind-how-b...

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#138

Post by zimpenfish »

jasonkester wrote: post #134
AndrewDucker wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It made me long for the pre-smartphone days in which I imagine travelers were forced to socialize with each other." Having lived through the horrors of the pre-smartphone days, I can tell you that this wasn't the case. See, for instance: https://i.pinimg.com/474x/1a/a1/7b/1aa17b28aad6df78a2e1d2016... or https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/540/1*U36hBj8i-C7JJJxS4M...

No, he's right. Until about 10 years ago, meeting people was an integral part of travel. You'd be essentially cut off from your friends back home (apart from maybe a daily email session), so you made new friends wherever you went. You'd go down to the common area of the hostel (or the beach bar near your bungalow in SE Asia), and strike up a conversation with pretty much anybody, since everybody there was traveling a…

> You'd go down to the common area of the hostel [] and strike up a conversation with pretty much anybody

Don't conflate what you would do with the general case - I, for one, -might- venture to a common area but it's extremely unlikely I'd ever consider trying to strike up a conversation.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#139

Post by motdiem »

Symbiote wrote: post #64
motdiem wrote: post #59

I think it's mostly posturing. Mobile phones were already banned in class, and this was well enforced. But many kids, especially in cities, take public transportation to get to middle school. My experience with middle school in Paris is that it's also very unreliable schedule-wise. When school suddenly finishes 2 hours early, I appreciate getting a text message from my kid telling me what they're up to. It looks to m…

The second sentence of the article starts: "Children will be allowed to bring their phones to school"

I think you underestimate the practicality of it - it’s a big topic of conversation at our middle school currently. I think it’s going to cause more issues than solve problems to be honest

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#140

Post by motdiem »

jylam wrote: post #65
motdiem wrote: post #59

I think it's mostly posturing. Mobile phones were already banned in class, and this was well enforced. But many kids, especially in cities, take public transportation to get to middle school. My experience with middle school in Paris is that it's also very unreliable schedule-wise. When school suddenly finishes 2 hours early, I appreciate getting a text message from my kid telling me what they're up to. It looks to m…

The school can send you an text message to inform you your kid will quit 2 hours early. Problem solved.

That would be great, if I could trust the school communications system. My experience in Paris public schools leads me to prefer other ways of communicating
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