Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 358 posts

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#121

Post by 110011 »

The way mobile phones are being used in the present day, by both children and adults alike, is unhealthy and at the very least it can be said that the potential ill effects are not very well understood. Much like how research into the ill effects of smoking were not properly understood during its heydays in the early 20th century when it was a sign of social sophistication and took many decades before a conclusive link (to lung cancer) was established.

One of the major changes it has caused in our societies is the splintering of attention and erosion of the ability to confront boredom (let alone the skill to turn it into something useful).

For example, if you reach for your mobile phone when your friend with whom you're having dinner excuses himself to go to the restroom, then that is a symptom. By itself, browsing some news websites or checking your social media feed is probably harmless in this context, but there is a huge opportunity cost in those missed moments where you could've profitably exploited that break to think about things that are important to you and to him.

Perhaps the ensuing conversation could've been steered in a deeper direction had you paused to think in those moments.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#122

Post by Bainos »

j9461701 wrote: post #33

>The minister said the ban was also a “public health message to families”, adding: “It’s good that children are not too often, or even at all, in front of a screen before the age of seven.” I remember being a little kid and wanting to learn about space and submarines and sharks, and not being able to. I'd read my local library's books on those subjects, but I lived in a little town with a puny library so quickly exha…

> Assuming usage is properly curated by parents or other authority figures, smart devices can be some of the most powerful tools for educating children this side of a Greek tutor.

Authority figures in school do not have the power or authority to watch over how the children use their phones. Children that want to information dive on a specific subject are free to do so at home, where their parents can (assuming they are willing to) control what content is accessed and for how long.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#123

Post by dazc »

isostatic wrote: post #109
dazc wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Some old people love to grouse about how Things Were Better Then, and how Children Used To Respect Authority...' I don't know if things were better then but (as a kid in the 70's) we certainly respected authority because the threat of physical violence was a real one. I am not saying that was a good thing by the way, just explaining.

As a kid in the 80s I didn't respect authority because I read Enid Blyton books (written in the 40s), who taught me that the local police were at best benign, but more likely incompetent.

'...the local police were at best benign, but more likely incompetent.'

True, but it didn't matter because the worst thing that could happen to you as a child would to be kidnapped by smugglers, tied up and left in a cave to die.

Thankfully though, it was OK for kids to carry knives back then so you could always escape and run away...

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#125

Post by seszett »

opportune wrote: post #118
latch wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see what you mean. I'm still curious why this has to be a law though? Aren't there a bunch of policies in schools that are enforced without the need for law? I didn't put this in my original comment, but I think what really got under my skin from the article was: "The minister said the ban was also a “public health message to families”, adding: “It’s good that children are not too often, or even at all, in front of…

Sure, there a few reasons to do it like this. First, my impression is that you still have the right to send your children to a private school where this won't be enforced. So it's not a law, it's a policy passed at the national level for the public schools, which are organized from the national level. Secondly, passing the law at the national level deals with the situation where a school gets "bullied" into not passi…

> First, my impression is that you still have the right to send your children to a private school where this won't be enforced. So it's not a law, it's a policy passed at the national level for the public schools, which are organized from the national level.

> I'm not French though, so someone will have to double check me on the claim that this is actually a national policy for public schools rather than an actual law.

As far as I understand it, they have not yet decided which legal way they will use to enforce that but it will most probably be in the "Code de l'éducation", so applicable to private schools as well.

Private schools have different funding, some liberty in choosing what they teach in addition to the nation-wide requirements, and more freedom in choosing the pupils they accept, but most policies do apply to them. The basic idea in France is that all children are supposed to get the same education, no matter where they are and what their parents want (with some leeway regarding regional culture and language). Children are future citizens rather than just property of their parents.

It's very clear here that the ban is intended to be for all children, not just public school children. Private schools are really anecdotal in France anyway, outside of a few regions (like mine in the rural West where almost 50% children used to go there, though it's been declining).

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#126

Post by dazc »

watwut wrote: post #112
dazc wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'why ban them during breaks...' School isn't just about academic study, it's also where you make friends and learn how to interact with others. I think mobile phones get in the way of this by enabling kids to just communicate within already established cliques?

Yeah, let's make it even harder for lonely kids. I mean seriosly, why do highly social people have so little empathy for introverted ones?

As a former introverted kid, I never liked being forced into situations where I might have to actually talk to some other person, especially of the opposite sex.

But, I can look back and be grateful there were no smartphones to hide behind, otherwise there are some hang-ups I might never have gotten over.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#127

Post by watwut »

dazc wrote: post #126
watwut wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, let's make it even harder for lonely kids. I mean seriosly, why do highly social people have so little empathy for introverted ones?

As a former introverted kid, I never liked being forced into situations where I might have to actually talk to some other person, especially of the opposite sex. But, I can look back and be grateful there were no smartphones to hide behind, otherwise there are some hang-ups I might never have gotten over.

Honestly, I don't get where special hung on talking with opposite gender comes from. Never had that problem, maybe because I was never in strictly single sex peer group.

But something that would allow me to hide a bit in elementary scool would be welcome. I did not learned anything about communication when forced into those situations, I was just lonely and miserable.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#128

Post by opportune »

seszett wrote: post #125
opportune wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, there a few reasons to do it like this. First, my impression is that you still have the right to send your children to a private school where this won't be enforced. So it's not a law, it's a policy passed at the national level for the public schools, which are organized from the national level. Secondly, passing the law at the national level deals with the situation where a school gets "bullied" into not passi…

> First, my impression is that you still have the right to send your children to a private school where this won't be enforced. So it's not a law, it's a policy passed at the national level for the public schools, which are organized from the national level. > I'm not French though, so someone will have to double check me on the claim that this is actually a national policy for public schools rather than an actual la…

Thank you for that, didn't realize the Code de l'éducation applied to private schools. Funnily enough, in some areas of the US, private schools are the only places to get a real education (e.g. in states which don't teach evolution in public schools), and I went to such a school, so I'm of the opinion that you should have the option to give your child a different education so long as it is not drastically different. I understand the argument for nationalizing this policy across all schools public and private, but like the person I was replying to originally, I'm not entirely sure I agree with that argument.

Then again, I think the difference really stems from a deep ideological disagreement on the priority of freedom from the government vs. freedom of the government. So it's no surprise that this doesn't make sense to us Americans

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#129

Post by alexduros »

I don't know if it's good or bad news. But what is very disappointing is that when French government deal with digital natives issues, it's a question about "should we fear about smartphones or not ?" As Laurent Alexandre explains it perfectly (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJowm24piM4, in french) in many talks he gives those times to the French government, we should spend more thinking about how to educate our children to use and understand those new technologies, instead of fearing it and applying the "good old french precautionary principle" to keep our eduction system free of smartphones, full of chalk and blackboard...

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#130

Post by wj »

abootstrapper wrote: post #55
zelos wrote: post #36

Can we limit them for use by parents as well? Playgrounds seem to be the place parents go to look at Facebook while their kids yell "look at me mummy" forlornly.

Cut parents some slack and give children some credit. Everyone is going to be just fine (possibly better) if dad gets a tiny break and junior gets a small taste of independence.

Agreed. I work from home and as such I get to spend much more time with my children than I otherwise would however the cost is that some of that time my attention is going to be divided.
Post reply on HN