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TP-Link firmware sends six DNS requests and one NTP query every 5 seconds

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Re: TP-Link firmware sends six DNS requests and one NTP query every 5 seconds

#41
post #27

Update: According to ktta ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15912467 ), there is mistake in my calculation too. "138KB * 24 * 3600 / 5" should be 2.3287GB per day. And it's 2.3287GB * 30 per month. Update 2: "For comparison, a 5-minute check would be considered a pretty aggressive checking interval, and would only consume 1,37 MB per month. Instead, TP-Link goes through the same amount of data in just 82 minutes…

Yet I don't think the author has a real takeaway: It's not 138KB.

Looking at DNS requests to those domains, I'm averaging about 30 bytes for the request and 70 bytes for the response.

Significantly larger and more complicated DNS requests returning a ton of DNSSEC records are coming around 4KB with eight separate UDP packets required for the response.

There is no way that 6 DNS queries for simple records and 1 NTP query comes in at 138 KB.

Edit: A dig on the 6 domains listed + a NTP query to one of them, for me, is sitting at less than 1KB total. Where are these numbers coming from?

Take a look at the response sizes in this CloudFlare post - https://blog.cloudflare.com/a-deep-dive-into-dns-packet-size... - they are talking about how they get DNSSEC responses under the 512 byte limit. The "unoptimized" ones are 4KB in response size. Even assuming that these domains turned on an unoptimized DNSSEC setup, that's still 24KB for those and less than 1KB for the NTP portion. The 138KB seems to be completely fabricated.

Edit2: Assuming the author meant 138 bytes as ktta pointed out, 86,400/5 = 17,280 sets of requests per day. That's 2,384,640 bytes, or ~2.3 megabytes a day. On a 31 day month, we're at ~71 megabytes. 1/10th of the amount the author is claiming.

Edit3: Though, 138 bytes seems low to me for 6 DNS queries and 1 NTP. Going by the numbers I get from a dig to the addresses it's closer to 600 bytes, which puts it at around ~309 megabytes per month. Without seeing what types of queries the repeaters are making it's hard for me to have any idea what the real numbers are, but it doesn't seem like the article's numbers add up regardless.

Re: TP-Link firmware sends six DNS requests and one NTP query every 5 seconds

#42
I purchased cheap crap TP-Link access points and replaced the firmware on each one with open-wrt[1] and they all works extremely well for many years now. The Stock firmware is total junk and crashes all the time.

[1] https://openwrt.org/

Re: TP-Link firmware sends six DNS requests and one NTP query every 5 seconds

#43
post #4

My most recent frustration with TP-LINK was they they DO NOT provide their firmware updates over HTTPS. They do not provide checksums for their firmware files either. (When I asked for these things, their support weren't helpful on Twitter.) So you're expected to download some unsigned binary over an untrusted connection and trust that with all your traffic. Definitely not buying TP-LINK next time. Good to know this…

Just install https://lede-project.org firmware, the successor of OpenWRT.

Re: TP-Link firmware sends six DNS requests and one NTP query every 5 seconds

#44
post #30
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ubiquity Unifi stuff looks good and not very expensive.

My entire house uses them exclusively and they’re rock solid (as long as you have latest firmware, adopting old stock can be .... interesting). Also no need for the cloud controller as you can run t inside a docker and have a fully self hosted solution.

If you don't want to pay $80 for the cloud key and don't want to run the controller on one of your machines, the unifi service can also be set up on a raspberry pi pretty easily.

Re: TP-Link firmware sends six DNS requests and one NTP query every 5 seconds

#45
post #9

PSA Anyone with commodity routers, repeaters, etc. please check out LEDE project https://lede-project.org . Check if your device has support here - https://lede-project.org/toh/start LEDE firmware is amazing. You will be able to do a lot more with your router and they have quick security fixes. The recent krack vulnerability was fixed within 2 days after the announcement.

Also, I maintain a page[0] that lists the top routers with support for openWrt and DD-wrt.

http://rooftopbazaar.com/routerfirmware/

Re: TP-Link firmware sends six DNS requests and one NTP query every 5 seconds

#46
post #27

Update: According to ktta ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15912467 ), there is mistake in my calculation too. "138KB * 24 * 3600 / 5" should be 2.3287GB per day. And it's 2.3287GB * 30 per month. Update 2: "For comparison, a 5-minute check would be considered a pretty aggressive checking interval, and would only consume 1,37 MB per month. Instead, TP-Link goes through the same amount of data in just 82 minutes…

Yet I don't think the author has a real takeaway: It's not 138KB. Looking at DNS requests to those domains, I'm averaging about 30 bytes for the request and 70 bytes for the response. Significantly larger and more complicated DNS requests returning a ton of DNSSEC records are coming around 4KB with eight separate UDP packets required for the response. There is no way that 6 DNS queries for simple records and 1 NTP qu…

Seems to me like 715 MB is about right, at least it's not off by a factor of 10.

There's no way you could fit six DNS queries and a couple of NTP queries into 138 bytes.

As pointed out by jlgaddis, based on the numbers in the article given for the size of DNS & NTP requests and responses, seems like the author meant 1380 bytes.

That gets you about 715 MB (or about 682 MiB).

Re: TP-Link firmware sends six DNS requests and one NTP query every 5 seconds

#47

Well I run a TP-link repeater and now thinking of getting something better. Someone know any routers or repeaters with reputation for good firmware?

Turris Omnia is nice router with auto update and strong focus on security. https://omnia.turris.cz/en/

Re: TP-Link firmware sends six DNS requests and one NTP query every 5 seconds

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet I don't think the author has a real takeaway: It's not 138KB. Looking at DNS requests to those domains, I'm averaging about 30 bytes for the request and 70 bytes for the response. Significantly larger and more complicated DNS requests returning a ton of DNSSEC records are coming around 4KB with eight separate UDP packets required for the response. There is no way that 6 DNS queries for simple records and 1 NTP qu…

Seems to me like 715 MB is about right, at least it's not off by a factor of 10. There's no way you could fit six DNS queries and a couple of NTP queries into 138 bytes. As pointed out by jlgaddis, based on the numbers in the article given for the size of DNS & NTP requests and responses, seems like the author meant 1380 bytes. That gets you about 715 MB (or about 682 MiB).

My third edit included a bit more on this - I'm closer to 600 bytes total than 1380. A few of them are sitting at closer to 80 bytes for a request+response for DNS, etc. With a quick while loop and tcpdump, I'm seeing the number as being off by about 2x from my testing.

My DNS numbers are all basically half his - all of my requests are sub 40 bytes, responses are all sub 80, some are sub 60. My NTP query and response packets are pretty close, though - sitting around 80 bytes for request and response.

Re: TP-Link firmware sends six DNS requests and one NTP query every 5 seconds

#49
post #9

PSA Anyone with commodity routers, repeaters, etc. please check out LEDE project https://lede-project.org . Check if your device has support here - https://lede-project.org/toh/start LEDE firmware is amazing. You will be able to do a lot more with your router and they have quick security fixes. The recent krack vulnerability was fixed within 2 days after the announcement.

>You will be able to do a lot more with your router and they have quick security fixes Just a counter point to this. Lede on its own doesn't have a very smooth in place upgrade system. If you are in the loop, sure you can do upgrades, but most people would never log in to their routers after setting it up. I think something like google wifi is not a bad solution either, with the obvious privacy tradeoff. It runs chro…

Chromium updates require a reboot to take effect, right? How does Google WiFi reliably update without service interruptions?

Re: TP-Link firmware sends six DNS requests and one NTP query every 5 seconds

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested in installing a different firmware on my home router, but there are many offerings. Is there any reason you recommend LEDE over the others? (e.g. Tomato)

OpenWRT/LEDE firmware is nice. I think I first used it with the (original) WRT54G. The future of the project is uncertain, however. They may or may not be around much longer.

>The future of the project is uncertain, however. They may or may not be around much longer.

Can you elaborate on this?

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