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Facebook wants your children's mind

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Re: Facebook wants your children's mind

#141

Post by smt88 »

kruczek wrote: post #122
smt88 wrote: post #26

All advertising is (intended to be) mind control. It wants to get you to take an action you weren't previously inclined to take. It follows that any product that's successful at controlling people can sell that control. If you consider the implications of Facebook-as-mass-mind-control, then Russian election-meddling, viral suicides, and all of Facebook's other facets make a lot of sense. It also makes sense that Face…

> All advertising is (intended to be) mind control. It wants to get you to take an action you weren't previously inclined to take. That is one reason for advertising, but not the only one. Advertising is also meant to simply notify people of the existence of a certain product. In that sense, it isn't supposed to force people to buy something they don't need, but it is supposed to make them choose advertised brand, on…

In your example, it's still modifying behavior to produce a specific result. It also introduces thoughts that may arise subconsciously, like thinking "Kleenex" when my nose is running.

That fits the definition of "mind control", as I was using it. Your definition might differ from mine.

Re: Facebook wants your children's mind

#142

Post by deadmetheny »

RpFLCL wrote: post #42
gfiorav wrote: post #5

Jeez I quit Facebook like 6 years ago and never looked back. What’s the real need here? Old buddies you barely know of? Let them go. Just drop FB, it’s not that important, and 70% of people are clearly (by reading all the “I quit Facebook drama posts”) over attached to it.

I second this notion. It's amazing how, even on a technically literate forum like HN, the posters around here make the same arguments that they /need/ FB to stay connected. Im five years clean from FB and have never looked back. It is absolutely possible to maintain communication with friends and family without Mr Zuckerberg's spy system. I encourage those of you who think it's a necessity to please try to spend even…

"Facebook can never be a tool that you use as needed and everything has to be a 1984 horrorshow"

Oh, please. My circle of friends uses it extensively to plan gatherings and such because it's fairly easy and most everyone has it. Most of us don't post very much or spend all that much time on the platform. I'm glad that you and all of the others who have managed to see beyond the seventh veil by deleting Facebook are doing well by it, and I also have my dislikes and reservations about the platform, but most of those are easily assuaged by simply not posting and browsing the news feed.

Re: Facebook wants your children's mind

#143

Post by pixl97 »

Chaebixi wrote: post #138
rock_hard wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phone rings anyways though...and they keep trying relentlessly

You can always mute your phone and join the national do-not-call registry to cut down on the calls.

>join the national do-not-call registry to cut down on the calls.

Buwahahahaha. Yea, like that stops the car warranty and health insurance spammers that fake the caller ID of a local number from ringing you 3 or 4 times a day.

Re: Facebook wants your children's mind

#144

Post by sincerely »

joejerryronnie wrote: post #99
gfiorav wrote: post #5

Jeez I quit Facebook like 6 years ago and never looked back. What’s the real need here? Old buddies you barely know of? Let them go. Just drop FB, it’s not that important, and 70% of people are clearly (by reading all the “I quit Facebook drama posts”) over attached to it.

I haven't logged into my facebook account in at least five years and I don't miss it one bit. The thing that pushed me over the edge was when I received an enthusiastic happy birthday from a girl I went to high school with. She was a couple of years older than me and I realized she had never spoken a single word to me in real life. For some reason this seemed so wrong and twisted and ended up being the straw that bro…

No disrespect intended but why would you add a friend you've never spoken to??

Re: Facebook wants your children's mind

#145

Post by Chaebixi »

nitemice wrote: post #18
gfiorav wrote: post #5

Jeez I quit Facebook like 6 years ago and never looked back. What’s the real need here? Old buddies you barely know of? Let them go. Just drop FB, it’s not that important, and 70% of people are clearly (by reading all the “I quit Facebook drama posts”) over attached to it.

I would have quit Facebook years ago, apart from the need for Messenger and the Events system. Sure, people you knew years ago might be on Facebook, but people you currently know are also there, and it's often the easiest way to coordinate an event or get in contact with people, because they actually bother to check it. I basically haven't used the feed part of Facebook in years, and I am happy to stay away.

If a decentralized social network like Mastodon can start supporting event planning, it might have a chance to gain ground against Facebook. That's really Facebook's only killer feature and unique value right now, IMHO.

https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/4179

Re: Facebook wants your children's mind

#146

Post by Chaebixi »

emiliobumachar wrote: post #121
egypturnash wrote: post #101

What if we declared Facebook to be a monopoly and broke it up like we did Ma Bell in the 70s? I dunno. Feels like it's too big, too ubiquitous, and is too much oriented towards encouraging behaviors that are much better for their pockets than for anyone using it. Hell, look at this story: Facebook already has (according to a quick google search, [citation needed]) about 58% of the US' entire adult population, or 3/4…

An interesting idea, which raises a lot of questions: Along which lines could it be broken up? Datacenters? Subsets of the social graph? Would you liked to be grouped with your family, your school or your church? It seems very plausible that one of them would grow and engulf everyone, while the others woulg go the way of MySpace. What then?

> Along which lines could it be broken up? Datacenters? Subsets of the social graph? Would you liked to be grouped with your family, your school or your church?

> It seems very plausible that one of them would grow and engulf everyone, while the others woul[d] go the way of MySpace. What then?

I've thought about this, and I think the best way to break up Facebook is by datacenter, staff, AND social graph. However, each successor company needs to be required to inter-operate with the others and everyone else through some open standard. That would blunt the network effect and perhaps allow a decentralized, competitive market to stabilize.

Re: Facebook wants your children's mind

#147

Post by dsnuh »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #136
dsnuh wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people forget that it is natural and necessary to have friendships that end or change. You don't need to know everyone your entire life.

But there's utility in a wide-field of acquaintances. It's not needed, you can live on an island by yourself after all, some will find the utility is not worth the cost.

But that's not my argument at all. You can have acquaintances. What I am trying to convey is that social media is turning real relationships into something more like the relationship with an acquaintance. If you can be "friends" with an acquaintance for extended periods of time and watch their lives, are they really acquaintances? What are they? It's a never ending High School Reunion. You have a passing interest in their lives, but in the end, do you really care?

I think we are addicted to control, novelty, and distraction, and we are neglecting real social connections.

Think about it. It started with call waiting. Now another party could preempt your conversation. Then there was the answering machine, you can time shift and screen your calls. Next it was pagers. Page me, and I will return the call at my leisure. Then cell phones. Anyone can call anytime! But that is too intrusive so everyone starts texting. Texting is not conducive to real human interaction. We need to hear each other, we need to be near and see facial expressions. We are losing part of our humanity.

I hesitate to call my own mother now without texting first. I hate that.

Re: Facebook wants your children's mind

#148

Post by Chaebixi »

0942v8653 wrote: post #103
egypturnash wrote: post #101

What if we declared Facebook to be a monopoly and broke it up like we did Ma Bell in the 70s? I dunno. Feels like it's too big, too ubiquitous, and is too much oriented towards encouraging behaviors that are much better for their pockets than for anyone using it. Hell, look at this story: Facebook already has (according to a quick google search, [citation needed]) about 58% of the US' entire adult population, or 3/4…

Social media is one of those things which by nature is difficult to break up. I'd say it's as hard to really fix as any natural monopoly. Facebook is not near as bad as Google is in terms of quiet influence, at least among the younger generation.

> Social media is one of those things which by nature is difficult to break up. I'd say it's as hard to really fix as any natural monopoly.

No. Right now, social networking right is sort of like email in the AOL/Compuserv days. Email is a kind of social network, but they key difference between it and service like Facebook is that it's implemented using open standards. There's no reason open standards for a "Facebook feed" could be designed and mandated during a break-up.

Re: Facebook wants your children's mind

#149

Post by dsnuh »

vinay427 wrote: post #102
dsnuh wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find myself thinking about the effects of social media on humans. I feel we entered The Button Age. Want a pizza? Hit this button. Want to get groceries delivered? Want to watch a movie? Hit a button. Want to show you care about some cause or event? Hit a button. Want to reward your brain with dopamine and feed your narcissistic behaviors by pretending that viewing a curated timeline of people's "lives" is friendsh…

I suspect this is why my attention span decreased significantly after extensively interacting with these websites for several years. I find a reduced ability to read books (of any kind), among other tasks over a longer time span. Longform pieces, such as books in particular, do at least force us to invest in the long term for a reward at the end, rather than near-instant gratification.

I find it almost impossible to finish a book now. Of course, my life is much busier than when I was younger, but I think it is not just that. We are losing our ability to pay attention to anything longer than the news cycle.

For example - Whatever happened in Vegas? So many unanswered questions about the worst shooting in American history, and it disappears from the news and public consciousness after what, 9 days? It's sad.

Re: Facebook wants your children's mind

#150

Post by creep »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #20
gfiorav wrote: post #5

Jeez I quit Facebook like 6 years ago and never looked back. What’s the real need here? Old buddies you barely know of? Let them go. Just drop FB, it’s not that important, and 70% of people are clearly (by reading all the “I quit Facebook drama posts”) over attached to it.

I personally use it quite a bit for keeping these relationships alive. I think Facebook is a great tool for that. I have contentious debates over ideas with people I know, but more importantly, with people a couple links away from me. It's been an extremely helpful bridge out of the filter bubble I'd probably otherwise inhabit. Of course, I'm not at all sure the benefits I've gotten have any resemblance to most peopl…

This is my experience. I live on the outskirts of my very large city. Most people are near the core, or live in the exact opposite direction of me on the other side of the city because it's cheaper there. I don't have classes with my friends, who go to other universities or are in different programs. If I didn't have a social media platform I would literally never talk to these people. But, instead of using Facebook to "share my life", I post articles and discussions I find interesting or relevant, which sparks healthier discussion on the platform. Most of my time on Facebook is spent catching up with still-good friends in messenger. I also keep my friend count low-- I have around 50 people on Facebook, all of whom I have spent a significant amount of time with in the past, all of whom I enjoy as people.

I think it's all about how the platform is used. Yes, it's designed to be addictive, but the less friends you have added, the less notifications you will receive daily. If one doesn't post many personal details, or does not document their life on their timeline, one can avoid most of the data-grabbing. I have two photos of me showing my face. I close the Facebook tab when not in use, and check it once a day. If no one has messaged me I close the tab again. I don't check Facebook on my phone.

As a sidenote, having HN as a source for "distraction" has helped me significantly. I check this site in the morning and learn something new everyday. But it doesn't feel like "work", it feels like a "break", similar to the feeling Facebook once gave me but without the guilt.

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