What Makes a Great Software Engineer? [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: What Makes a Great Software Engineer? [pdf]

#71

Post by opportune » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 2:22 AM UTC

vmarsy wrote: post #47

makmanalp wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being personable: "Can I have a beer with this guy?" is the worse in my opinion I'm not going to disagree with you re: beer buddies. Really the way I read this is not as a requirement that employees participate in after-work events or in mandatory work friendships, but more of a misguided heuristic for something simpler. The general question is whether the average interaction with you is pleasant or not. If your jo…

That's a good point. Given the choice, I definitely would work with someone who's more pleasant to interact with. But my definition of "pleasant" in a professional environment is far away from my definition of "pleasant to have a beer with". Like you can be a very friendly, chill, and fun person, but if professionally you keep overpromising, not own to your mistakes, pretend you know something when you don't (which c…

The funny thing is that a pleasant, over-promising person who pretends to know more than they actually do would be fast tracked for management at a lot of companies.

Re: What Makes a Great Software Engineer? [pdf]

#72

Post by lr4444lr » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 2:27 AM UTC

internetman55 wrote: post #68

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not unreasonable, given that some companies demand passionate rockstar unicorn engineers, yet most companies will not grant that request - they will instead exploit that passion into workaholism and leave you holding the bag when you burnout. So as engineers, we must demand equally that "passion" not be a requirement.

Lots of companies don't actually want "rockstars". I know someone from college with incredible quantiative and programming skills. He started taking rigorous college level math classes and writing his own compression schemes in high school. He got his undergrad degree in about 2 years by getting permission to enroll in 4+ graduate computer science courses each semester instead of doing the normal curriculum. When he…

I admit some envy of people who find their passion early and make the most of every year of their life leading up to a career, but if he's so smart and driven, why is he working at some "boring tech" company as a cog under some layer management? Why doesn't he consult solo and reap the fruit of his precociousness?

Re: What Makes a Great Software Engineer? [pdf]

#73

Post by mempko » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 3:07 AM UTC

jasonjei wrote: post #27

vmarsy wrote: post #13

I don't get the "9 to 5 wouldn't make you a great engineer" about not being passionate, some people are passionate but have other life obligations like kids or other activities. Being personable: "Can I have a beer with this guy?" is the worse in my opinion. I care about your professional skills and if you're communicating well, but you definitely don't have to be a beer buddy, we might have 15 years difference, a ve…

> I don't get the "9 to 5 wouldn't make you a great engineer" about not being passionate, some people are passionate but have other life obligations like kids or other activities. I think what the engineer is trying to convey is that a great software engineer thinks about code beyond just the job. I don't think the engineer literally means being a workaholic or the literal 9am-5pm shift, but the engineer has pet proj…

of course the the corporate overlords want engineers to spend free time doing side projects. Usually they can claim those side projects as their own via the employment contract.

Re: What Makes a Great Software Engineer? [pdf]

#74

Post by internetman55 » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 3:07 AM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #72

internetman55 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of companies don't actually want "rockstars". I know someone from college with incredible quantiative and programming skills. He started taking rigorous college level math classes and writing his own compression schemes in high school. He got his undergrad degree in about 2 years by getting permission to enroll in 4+ graduate computer science courses each semester instead of doing the normal curriculum. When he…

I admit some envy of people who find their passion early and make the most of every year of their life leading up to a career, but if he's so smart and driven, why is he working at some "boring tech" company as a cog under some layer management? Why doesn't he consult solo and reap the fruit of his precociousness?

Well, it was just an internship he got through a relative. He ended up there after getting dinged from Google due to some issue with his class standing or something. He got a much better job after, and then suffered some very tragic personal circumstances, so I'm not quite sure what he is up to now. But I have great hope for his future.

Re: What Makes a Great Software Engineer? [pdf]

#75

Post by momofarm » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 3:08 AM UTC

opportune wrote: post #71

vmarsy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point. Given the choice, I definitely would work with someone who's more pleasant to interact with. But my definition of "pleasant" in a professional environment is far away from my definition of "pleasant to have a beer with". Like you can be a very friendly, chill, and fun person, but if professionally you keep overpromising, not own to your mistakes, pretend you know something when you don't (which c…

The funny thing is that a pleasant, over-promising person who pretends to know more than they actually do would be fast tracked for management at a lot of companies.

don't know why, but I've seen a lot manager in high level have these characteristics of over promising and always bull*hit something he don't even know.

Re: What Makes a Great Software Engineer? [pdf]

#76

Post by deepGem » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 3:18 AM UTC

vmarsy wrote: post #13

I don't get the "9 to 5 wouldn't make you a great engineer" about not being passionate, some people are passionate but have other life obligations like kids or other activities. Being personable: "Can I have a beer with this guy?" is the worse in my opinion. I care about your professional skills and if you're communicating well, but you definitely don't have to be a beer buddy, we might have 15 years difference, a ve…

I don't get the "9 to 5 wouldn't make you a great engineer"

As an experienced engineering manager this is what I've come across - Some of the engineers who put a 9 to 5 clause, are usually the obstinate engineers, who are not very productive during the hours of 9 to 5, but won't make up by working extra hours. The motto is 'This is all I'll deliver, live with it'. Perhaps, this bias factors in and a generalization emerges 'All 9 to 5 engineers are stubborn, non-creative, non-committed'. This is a huge fallacy because, again based on my limited experience, I have worked with some of the most productive, creative and committed engineers who mostly worked 9-5, but sprang to action in the middle of the night when a high priority production bug had to be looked into.

Re: What Makes a Great Software Engineer? [pdf]

#77

Post by andrewstuart » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 3:37 AM UTC

I wrote a post a few years ago "50 characteristics of a great software developer" http://www.supercoders.com.au/blog/50characteristicsofagreat...

Having said that, and having written it, I still believe the absolute core issue in all technical recruiting is that no-one knows exactly what a great software developer is.

In fact, it is entirely subjective, and simply a matter of opinion.

I put it to you that most recruiting processes aren't worth a bent cent because the initial question cannot be adequately answered "OK, you're looking for 'the best' software developers..... PRECISELY what is that" And if an interviewer can't define precisely what they are looking for then how the heck do they know they found it with sufficient confidence to say "here is the right person for the job".

Most recruiting is simply Voodoo Recruiting, a collection of myths, legends, whispers, misplaced beliefs and pure nonsense. Does this person get the job or not? Shake the bones, look at the tealeaves, throw a rabbit over your shoulder and choose the person who gave the interviewer the best feeling.

Re: What Makes a Great Software Engineer? [pdf]

#78

Post by internetman55 » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 4:15 AM UTC

opportune wrote: post #69

internetman55 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of companies don't actually want "rockstars". I know someone from college with incredible quantiative and programming skills. He started taking rigorous college level math classes and writing his own compression schemes in high school. He got his undergrad degree in about 2 years by getting permission to enroll in 4+ graduate computer science courses each semester instead of doing the normal curriculum. When he…

I know people like that, and I think I've been that person before at my first job. I would argue that someone with great quantitative and programming skills who "freaks out" their coworkers is not a rockstar. To be a rockstar developer, you have to have good enough communication skills to work within your team. A rockstar developer wouldn't ask questions of their coworkers that would embarrass them; a rockstar develo…

"Now, if coworkers or management are too incompetent for even that, sure, even the best developer would have a bad time."

I haven't worked with his team, but based on my experience with the company, it's possible that there was some of this, and people being so demoralized that they let the incompetent guy with the most standing make stupid decisions and then just do what he says. But they may not have been as bad.

Re: What Makes a Great Software Engineer? [pdf]

#79

Post by enraged_camel » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 5:11 AM UTC

jwdunne wrote: post #29

jasonjei wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't get the "9 to 5 wouldn't make you a great engineer" about not being passionate, some people are passionate but have other life obligations like kids or other activities. I think what the engineer is trying to convey is that a great software engineer thinks about code beyond just the job. I don't think the engineer literally means being a workaholic or the literal 9am-5pm shift, but the engineer has pet proj…

That's a relief. Three kids mandate 9 to 5 work hours. There isn't much quality time or mental energy to dedicate after that. It's a relief because whatever energy I have left I spend on books, articles, papers. Those things have helped my 9 to 5 in a big way. I bring what I learn to the job. It doesn't beat hands on practice. I do itch to work on practice projects and I'm hoping when the kids are a little older, I'l…

>>In any case, my kids are my number one. The day my first was born was the day my motivations and my reason for being shifted.

Your kids should be your number one priority, absolutely.

Make no mistake though: when you have kids you are trading off professional development outside of work for raising a family.

Nothing wrong with that, but the trade off definitely is there. People who ambitiously work on personal projects in their spare time will, on average, advance faster than those who are 9-5'ers.

Re: What Makes a Great Software Engineer? [pdf]

#80

Post by gregmac » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 5:41 AM UTC

internetman55 wrote: post #34

vmarsy wrote: post #13

I don't get the "9 to 5 wouldn't make you a great engineer" about not being passionate, some people are passionate but have other life obligations like kids or other activities. Being personable: "Can I have a beer with this guy?" is the worse in my opinion. I care about your professional skills and if you're communicating well, but you definitely don't have to be a beer buddy, we might have 15 years difference, a ve…

I've had coworkers who were obese, childless at a relatively advanced age (around 40), poor relationship with their significant other, etc. tell me about how they spend their downtime making sure their manager meets their deadlines and studying documentation, sometimes working til 2 in the morning. I'd rather just get laid off and collect unemployment for a few months then spend another week ruining my life like that…

If a manager expects or even does anything short of actively discouraging that behavior, they are not fit to be a manager.