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Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#311

Post by slantyyz »

valuearb wrote: post #309
slantyyz wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing my original point, which is to say the guy can't legally call himself an engineer in Oregon, at least in a professional capacity, which would be related to a profession/consumer protection. If you actually followed the thread, my point was a response to a response about changing the title to not call the person an engineer in the headline. It had nothing to do with him being sanctioned for expressing h…

If the guild of professional Kobe beef ranchers were given government authority to fine anyone who referred to non-kobe cow meat as “beef”, would it be right?

Don't confuse legality with morality. They may be related but they are not always in sync. In the real world the law will often prevail.

Context is important. You can call non-kobe beef "kobe beef" in casual conversation, but IIRC you cannot in a conversation where you are selling said meat. IIRC "Kobe" is protected by treaty. If you are selling meat from a wagyu cow not originating from and raised in Kobe, you have to use the word "Wagyu" or another word instead of "Kobe".

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#312

Post by walshemj »

jhayward wrote: post #310
walshemj wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Including FFS Estate Agents (Relators)

> Including FFS Estate Agents (Relators) Yes, because before regulation buying and selling real estate was rife with scams, ripoffs, blatantly false advertising, and misapropriation. These regulations don't come out of nowhere. I know that there is some residual teenage rebellion against rules, and there is without a doubt some downside and friction associated with imperfect regulation and enforcement. The alternativ…

we don't have those problems in the UK where Estate Agents are not regulated and fixed fees ala purple bricks are getting popular

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#313

Post by jeabo »

czep wrote: post #186
briffle wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved back to OR from the Midwest last spring.. its maddening that all 3 lanes seem to travel within 3-5 mph of each other, usually right at the speed limit (or lately, in the dark at 5pm, under it), and nobody passes anyone..

Maddening? That sounds perfectly peaceful to me! It sounds like everyone just wants to get where they're going, safely. Why do you feel so driven (!) to go so fast? Given the choice between what you describe---an orderly set of traffic at near the speed limit---or a free-for-all in which inevitably an aggressive lane-changer clips someone at 85mph spreading blood and metal all over the highway and stopping traffic fo…

Its a free-for-all when everyone picks arbitrary speeds and are in any lane they feel like. It would be much safer for everyone to go the same speed. But with heavy trucks, economy cars, and people who won't let you in, and people who simply refuse to go faster, its currently not possible.

Both reasonably slow and fast drivers can coexist if they follow some basic rules. Always be aware of vehicles around you. Don't cut people off. Let people in. Don't abruptly unless there's an emergency. Keep the passing lane open unless traffic is very heavy.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#314

Post by valuearb »

slantyyz wrote: post #311
valuearb wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the guild of professional Kobe beef ranchers were given government authority to fine anyone who referred to non-kobe cow meat as “beef”, would it be right?

Don't confuse legality with morality. They may be related but they are not always in sync. In the real world the law will often prevail. Context is important. You can call non-kobe beef "kobe beef" in casual conversation, but IIRC you cannot in a conversation where you are selling said meat. IIRC "Kobe" is protected by treaty. If you are selling meat from a wagyu cow not originating from and raised in Kobe, you have…

This is a man who makes a living by performing engineering work, just like me. We are both “Professional Engineers” and no state certified labor monopoly can change that. It’s neither moral nor legal to try, given both the US and Oregon constitutions(1). Which is why the “Professional Engineer” scammers are trying to avoid legal rulings. They should really only call themselves “State Certified Engineers”

(1) The right to self expression is so well protected in the Oregon Constitution that strippers have a right to perform with full nudity.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#315

Post by twocenter »

wandernotlost wrote: post #194
overhang wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your prescription creates situations in which it is literally impossible to drive safely That is ridiculous. If the vehicle in front of you is traveling 75mph and you want to travel 80mph, it is not impossible for you to drive safely. If the vehicle in front of you seems especially dangerous to be behind, it is still not impossible to drive safely. I recently got run out of my lane by a semi who swerved in from the…

You missed the point. I'm not talking about situations with two vehicles on the road. What happens with regular traffic is that you get someone driving 75mph in the right lane and another driving 75mph in the left lane, and it's game over for the whole highway. Once a few more vehicles accumulate, there's no safe driving stance. If you stay in the left, a gap develops on the right and people coming up to the jam pass…

I think you have missed the point. If two trucks are driving 25mph side by side on a two-lane 75mph freeway, blocking all other traffic, everyone behind them can still drive safely. They don't have to merge in and out between lanes. They don't have to be dangerous.

Too many people take the attitude that such a situation would force them to pass on the shoulder, or to cross the median and drive the wrong way on the other side of the freeway. They have no other option. They were forced to take drastic measure because there was no other choice.

Of course there's another choice. Slow down. Yes, it is frustrating. Yes, it is inconvenient. Yes, yes, it is many undesirable things. But it is an option and it is safer.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#316

Post by twocenter »

logfromblammo wrote: post #191
overhang wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't even count how many times I have seen a tractor-trailer in the left lane at 70 mph passing a tractor-trailer in the right lane at 69 mph, as passenger cars stack up behind them. It creates a dangerous situation that I can only avoid by slowing down or exiting the roadway. Presuming the max speed was 70mph, your post epitomizes the real danger. Traffic should not stack up behind vehicles traveling at the max…

> proper following distances, all traveling 70mph Hi. Welcome to Earth. It looks like you missed orientation. Humans drive at different speeds, and usually follow too closely. We have recognized this species-wide problem, and are currently trying to build driving robots that will reduce the impact. Until they are ready, every collision you may see on the road was likely caused by a human driving non-optimally. Theref…

Welcome to the 21st century. Times have changed. Driving robots are now a reality. Adaptive cruise is a real thing, and the most well-known adaptive cruise systems slow down to adjust to traffic speeds, not speed up and pass.

In fact, the most well known system made an adjustment some time ago that it would no longer exceed the legal speed limit.

> rational drivers must presume that the other vehicles on the road may possibly behave irrationally, and therefore must introduce a safety margin for the incorrect behavior of other drivers in addition to the margin defined by their own capabilities.

Exactly. So slow down. Join the train of cars instead of trying to pass them. Maintain a safe distance and don't worry that you will be late. You won't. 20 cars driving 70mph is better than 10 cars driving 80, one driving 85, five driving 75, two driving 90, and two driving 70. It is better for all of those cars, not just the two driving 70. They will all be safer, and they will all arrive at their destinations within 60 seconds of when they would have.

Humans are not machines, of course. But they can work on one important attribute with which every automated vehicle should be programmed: patience. In a world where human drivers increasingly share the road with robots, human patience must adapt.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#317

Post by twocenter »

StillBored wrote: post #200
overhang wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as a thought experiment, imagine a line of 20 vehicles all traveling at a safe distance going the exact same speed--the legal maximum limit. Does this sound like a utopia to you, or a nightmare? Do you think this would make traffic more optimal, or would it cause untold safety issues? If somebody in the left lane is traveling at the legal maximum speed and it causes traffic to stack up behind them, does this cre…

What you describe will be safe when all 20 of those cars are self driving. In the meantime, your trying to get 20 people to agree on what is the correct speed. Not only that, but your trying to get 20 people to hold that speed exactly. Invariably what happens is that a couple cars are going to go a little slower up hill (or whatever) and cause yo-yo'ing in the line, which is what causes actual traffic jams. The resul…

1. Travel in the rightmost lane except to pass. 2. Pass in the rightmost reasonable lane. 3. When there is not lane available on the left to pass, slow down. 4. Be patient.

Why do we always leave off 3 and 4? The angry posters here are so focused on 1 and 2, but don't seem to acknowledge 3 and 4.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#318

Post by jhayward »

walshemj wrote: post #312
jhayward wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Including FFS Estate Agents (Relators) Yes, because before regulation buying and selling real estate was rife with scams, ripoffs, blatantly false advertising, and misapropriation. These regulations don't come out of nowhere. I know that there is some residual teenage rebellion against rules, and there is without a doubt some downside and friction associated with imperfect regulation and enforcement. The alternativ…

we don't have those problems in the UK where Estate Agents are not regulated and fixed fees ala purple bricks are getting popular

That's an interesting observation. I do wonder if there isn't some congruent regulatory mechanism keeping things in line.

Out of curiosity, what would a typical set of transaction fees be for buying and selling a property? In my area (US/TX) it is nominally a 3% fee to the agent plus no more than 2% of the transaction for all other costs including financing, title insurance, etc.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#319

Post by walshemj »

jhayward wrote: post #318
walshemj wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we don't have those problems in the UK where Estate Agents are not regulated and fixed fees ala purple bricks are getting popular

That's an interesting observation. I do wonder if there isn't some congruent regulatory mechanism keeping things in line. Out of curiosity, what would a typical set of transaction fees be for buying and selling a property? In my area (US/TX) it is nominally a 3% fee to the agent plus no more than 2% of the transaction for all other costs including financing, title insurance, etc.

Between 1.3 and 1.8 % plus VAT at 20% plus £400/500 for a survey. Other costs vary by what mortgage you get but I add 1 to 2K.

Plus stamp duty You can claim a discount (relief) so you don’t pay any tax up to £300,000 and 5% on the portion from £300,001 to £500,000.

seems high but property taxes are tiny when compared to the USA

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#320

Post by romwell »

dbdr wrote: post #307
romwell wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea won't work. In TX, all highways have clear signs saying "LEFT LANE FOR PASSING ONLY", and guess how many people notice them? I've also known people who think it's OK to be in the left lane if they're going the speed limit. Do you think these people will be educated by waving a sign in front of them from a motorcycle? They'll just get angry.

> I've also known people who think it's OK to be in the left lane if they're going the speed limit. I would think it's OK if there is traffic in the other lanes too (otherwise you should go back to the lanes on the right). But why does it bother you? Do you think it's OK to go above the speed limit? Just curious.

>I would think it's OK if there is traffic in the other lanes too (otherwise you should go back to the lanes on the right).

Yes, that's common sense.

>But why does it bother you? Do you think it's OK to go above the speed limit? Just curious.

What I think about going than higher than the speed limit is irrelevant. If you aren't passing by going the speed limit, you should not be in the left lane too. Why shouldn't you? Well:

1. Because it's against what the law says!

2. Because it slows down the flow of traffic.

3. Because it creates a road hazard, as people who actually try to use the passing lane for passing will have to slow down if a vehicle merges at a slower speed.

4. Because this actually makes passing impossible, which kills the whole point of the passing lane.

5. Did I say it creates a road hazard already? https://lifehacker.com/help-your-kids-record-and-edit-a-fami...

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