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Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#191

Post by barry-cotter »

ben_w wrote: post #134
waster wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are actually specific terms to label intelligence based on the number of standard deviations from the norm (100 IQ). Two to 3 SD's is highly gifted; 4-5 is exceptionally gifted; and 6+ SD's is profoundly gifted. The numbers change depending on what IQ instrument is used, but the terms for those SD brackets remain the same. I forget what Mensa's IQ threshold is and what IQ instruments they accept as measures (I…

Just to add, by definition 6σ is one in a billion. It isn’t just “profoundly gifted”, but rather “there are seven of you”.

IQ is a fat tailed distribution. There are way more people in the tails than the test’s definition and morning would suggest.

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#192

Post by brailsafe »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #169
Gargoyle wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When there's an HN thread on IQ, you can count on two things: 1. There will be a number of comments saying IQ is outright meaningless. 2. There will be a comment saying Feynman only had an IQ of whatever it was. Never fails. Anyway, as I've said here before, Feynman's books are primarily collections of stories. What's presented in them was selected to maximize the impact and entertainment value of the story. And Feyn…

To be perfectly clear, I am not saying IQ scores are completely meaningless. I am saying they probably do not measure some sort of objective, DNA-based trait of "smarts". You cannot separate these scores from a very long list of environmental factors and I am very leery of the mental model we have that people who test well are some sort of innately superior beings rather than people who have benefited more than avera…

I think you described this well. Doesn't really get brought up enough, perhaps because there is a bit of survivor's bias here and people don't have that perspective. After having failed numerous times at being a professional software developer, I found myself having to abandon my apartment and live out of my car while trying to get by. I've been out of work for a while, in part because of the stigma attached to being out of work a while. Being homeless also has a stigma attached to it that you simply do not see when you're doing well. Having grown up in a culture that actively embraces those stigmas, and now having returned to it — they are family—, I find it quite eye-opening how the people I once considered mentors have really isolated themselves in a bubble of not having to be conscious of these things.

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#193

Post by mirimir »

oppositelock wrote: post #4

I've met plenty of incredibly intelligent people in my life, and very few mentioned Mensa. Those who did had a yearning for being recognized as smart or exceptional. Perhaps using Mensa membership to draw inferences about smart people in general isn't statistically applicable. It could be that people who want to be recognized as smart have those mental issues, which other smart people don't.

Yes, it's a biased sample. The title should be "Mensa membership associated with mental and physical disorders".

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#194

Post by DoreenMichele »

brailsafe wrote: post #192
DoreenMichele wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be perfectly clear, I am not saying IQ scores are completely meaningless. I am saying they probably do not measure some sort of objective, DNA-based trait of "smarts". You cannot separate these scores from a very long list of environmental factors and I am very leery of the mental model we have that people who test well are some sort of innately superior beings rather than people who have benefited more than avera…

I think you described this well. Doesn't really get brought up enough, perhaps because there is a bit of survivor's bias here and people don't have that perspective. After having failed numerous times at being a professional software developer, I found myself having to abandon my apartment and live out of my car while trying to get by. I've been out of work for a while, in part because of the stigma attached to being…

Thank you.

I am trying to do some things to bring down those barriers. I was able to start making some earned income online while homeless. My lack of nice clothes or a recent shower did not matter. I am trying to foster that model as a thing that can help protect against sliding into homelessness, help you scrape by while on the street and be something that can help build a future that won't be taken away because you got better. Plus, it is not a homeless service, is open to anyone interested.

http://independentdigitalworkers.blogspot.com/

I was one of the top students of my graduating high school class. I got a lot of brainwashing that I was destined for greatness etc. It didn't go down that way. So I think these mental models are mostly propaganda and we need to guard against that.

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#195

Post by WhitneyLand »

oppositelock wrote: post #4

I've met plenty of incredibly intelligent people in my life, and very few mentioned Mensa. Those who did had a yearning for being recognized as smart or exceptional. Perhaps using Mensa membership to draw inferences about smart people in general isn't statistically applicable. It could be that people who want to be recognized as smart have those mental issues, which other smart people don't.

The whole concept is repulsive to me, almost like having a club for white people.

The birds of a feather approach to connecting people is great when it’s based around an interest or activity, but not when it’s solely based on some crude 21st century approximation of what too many people equate with human value.

Why not just have events based around particle physics if that’s your interest? Oh that’s right, they do.

The point is why rule people out who’s IQ is one point below a cut off that may turn out to be your most interesting conversation or new best friend.

Nothing against those here who have applied. I know there are just different perspectives on it and many view it as benign.

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#196

Post by orangecat »

bthornbury wrote: post #129

IQ != intelligence again... IQ != intelligence Reading through the comments I feel this needs to be expounded on. IQ is a barely useful metric in predicting achievement or success. IMO thought structures and habits of thinking can be much more applicable in reality than a high IQ, leading to higher "intelligence" despite low IQ. See: Richard Feynman, idiosyncratic thinking ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr8sVailoL…

IQ is a barely useful metric in predicting achievement or success.

This has somehow become the standard wisdom, and it's just wrong. IQ is highly predictive of a wide range of outcomes; see for example https://www.vox.com/2016/5/24/11723182/iq-test-intelligence.

That's just correlation, which could happen even if IQ is really just a function of your socioeconomic environment or other things that are not actual intelligence. Although there is strong evidence that is not the case.

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#197

Post by brailsafe »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #194
brailsafe wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you described this well. Doesn't really get brought up enough, perhaps because there is a bit of survivor's bias here and people don't have that perspective. After having failed numerous times at being a professional software developer, I found myself having to abandon my apartment and live out of my car while trying to get by. I've been out of work for a while, in part because of the stigma attached to being…

Thank you. I am trying to do some things to bring down those barriers. I was able to start making some earned income online while homeless. My lack of nice clothes or a recent shower did not matter. I am trying to foster that model as a thing that can help protect against sliding into homelessness, help you scrape by while on the street and be something that can help build a future that won't be taken away because yo…

You're welcome. That looks like a nice resource and I've bookmarked it. I think it'll help going forward as I figure out how to build an income remotely from a variety of sources. Thanks :)

With regard to your last statement, here's a (very) vaguely related post from Penelope Trunk who also writes about aspberger's and life. http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2011/12/01/living-up-to-your-p...

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#198

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

fileeditview wrote: post #88
DoreenMichele wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Richard Feynman, one of the most respected geniuses of our era, tested as only having an IQ of 125. IQ tests are far from perfect, to say the least. This means our concept of IQ is likely inherently flawed. Feynman seemed to take glee in sharing his "low" IQ of only a 125. He was one of the smartest men on the planet in the last 100 years. Surely, we should defer to his opinion that the concept IQ is sort of a joke.…

It always struck me as crazy to represent all that is intelligence in one number. Also AFAIK many things such as "social intelligence" are not tested at all. I always smile at people putting that much weight into IQ numbers..

> Also AFAIK many things such as "social intelligence" are not tested at all.

As far as I've read about it (not an expert; I've just seen this debate more than once before and tried to educate myself on the basics), that's because every time someone proposes an actual objective test for one of the "other intelligences", it turns out to either be primarily dependent on training (i.e. measuring conditioned behaviors) or to correlate so strongly with IQ that the test is effectively an IQ test.

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#199

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #154
lgas wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm just not that bright but I would expect to see a positive correlation between IQ and exceptional chess ability.

There is a positive correlation between IQ and chess ability. That does not imply that there should be a positive correlation between IQ and chess ability in a group that has been selected for strong performance in chess.

Is this Simpson's Paradox, or something else?

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#200

Post by gozur88 »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #62
oppositelock wrote: post #4

I've met plenty of incredibly intelligent people in my life, and very few mentioned Mensa. Those who did had a yearning for being recognized as smart or exceptional. Perhaps using Mensa membership to draw inferences about smart people in general isn't statistically applicable. It could be that people who want to be recognized as smart have those mental issues, which other smart people don't.

I tried out Mensa briefly some years ago. I was just looking for new social circles. I have some pretty sharp older buddies that I play Go with weekly, they're a blast to talk to, and I thought I'd find some more of that. It was bad. Really, really bad. The local chapter had a tiny handful of post-retirement members. I knew a ton of folks in my community at the time, a bunch of them were smart, active people, and non…

>It really looked like the only thing the Mensa folks had going for them was having done well on a test.

Maybe not even that. I don't know if it's still true, but Mensa used to accept anybody with a PhD. I used to know a not-at-all-brilliant woman who was a Mensa member by virtue of her doctorate in Library Science.

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