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Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#181

Post by tomcam »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #62
oppositelock wrote: post #4

I've met plenty of incredibly intelligent people in my life, and very few mentioned Mensa. Those who did had a yearning for being recognized as smart or exceptional. Perhaps using Mensa membership to draw inferences about smart people in general isn't statistically applicable. It could be that people who want to be recognized as smart have those mental issues, which other smart people don't.

I tried out Mensa briefly some years ago. I was just looking for new social circles. I have some pretty sharp older buddies that I play Go with weekly, they're a blast to talk to, and I thought I'd find some more of that. It was bad. Really, really bad. The local chapter had a tiny handful of post-retirement members. I knew a ton of folks in my community at the time, a bunch of them were smart, active people, and non…

Very similar to my experience. That organization is a train wreck. I realized afterwards that joining them is like joining something called the Leg Club. You aren't bound by an interest in anything other than yourself, as opposed to, say, an environmental or tennis club.

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#182

Post by [deleted] »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #62
oppositelock wrote: post #4

I've met plenty of incredibly intelligent people in my life, and very few mentioned Mensa. Those who did had a yearning for being recognized as smart or exceptional. Perhaps using Mensa membership to draw inferences about smart people in general isn't statistically applicable. It could be that people who want to be recognized as smart have those mental issues, which other smart people don't.

I tried out Mensa briefly some years ago. I was just looking for new social circles. I have some pretty sharp older buddies that I play Go with weekly, they're a blast to talk to, and I thought I'd find some more of that. It was bad. Really, really bad. The local chapter had a tiny handful of post-retirement members. I knew a ton of folks in my community at the time, a bunch of them were smart, active people, and non…

[deleted]

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#183

Post by swiftting »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #62
oppositelock wrote: post #4

I've met plenty of incredibly intelligent people in my life, and very few mentioned Mensa. Those who did had a yearning for being recognized as smart or exceptional. Perhaps using Mensa membership to draw inferences about smart people in general isn't statistically applicable. It could be that people who want to be recognized as smart have those mental issues, which other smart people don't.

I tried out Mensa briefly some years ago. I was just looking for new social circles. I have some pretty sharp older buddies that I play Go with weekly, they're a blast to talk to, and I thought I'd find some more of that. It was bad. Really, really bad. The local chapter had a tiny handful of post-retirement members. I knew a ton of folks in my community at the time, a bunch of them were smart, active people, and non…

Your description of Mensa sounds exactly like the IQ obsession over on quora.com. Every week tons of posts about IQ. It’s the same questions over and over again, I really feel like the community over there has very low self esteem in regards to intelligence because they’re not on track to be the next mark zuckerberg.

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#185

Post by brailsafe »

orangecat wrote: post #175
croon wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree on your overall point that you should be using your mind for something productive rather than showing off, I have to note that getting degrees has nothing (edit: very little) to do with IQ. IQ might help you understand a subject better, but being focused, studying, planning, and having the motivation is what gets you degrees.

I have to note that getting degrees has nothing (edit: very little) to do with IQ. That's just not true, even with the edit. Certainly high intelligence by itself isn't sufficient, but you're not going to find many physics PhDs with a 90 IQ.

I think it's worth considering though how much of that is pure problem solving ability, and how much is enthusiasm. I'd wager that the majority of academic programs could be successfully completed as long as long-lasting enthusiasm and time management are in place. Also worth considering is just how many factors can lead to a negative outcome.

I'd bet that physics PHDs get there with persistence, enthusiasm, and money. Intelligence barriers may not stand in there way but I don't think they're the determining factor.

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#186

Post by brailsafe »

Houshalter wrote: post #178
DoreenMichele wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.appliedbehavioranalysisedu.org/is-autism-associa... The very existence of autism calls into question our historical conceptualization of intelligence and IQ testing. I have two ASD sons. They are very bright. They also have some serious personal struggles. So, which is it? Does IQ measure general competence or does it measure something else? Because this latest twist in the conversation seems just ridicul…

I have no idea what you think this is supposed to prove. People with a weird brain condition have weird results on brain tests? >Does IQ measure general competence or does it measure something else? It's an Intelligence Quotient . It measures intelligence. No one said anything about "general competence", whatever that even means. I imagine intelligence is an important part of "general competence" though.

Lucio in one of the parents proposed that IQ is highly correlated with general competence.

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#187

Post by barry-cotter »

Houshalter wrote: post #164
curun1r wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This means our concept of IQ is likely inherently flawed I'm not sure I'd say flawed so much as I'd say myopic. Which is absolutely still a flaw, but a very specific one that allows you to contextualize the results of an IQ test rather than discard them as worthless. IQ measures a subset of human intelligence pretty effectively, but misses the bigger picture. There's large parts of human intelligence that can't be…

>Among other things, it can't measure long-term recall or the ability to rehearse/learn information and skills over time The vocabulary battery would seem to measure long term memorization ability. It actually correlates with IQ better than any other test. Also SAT tests are often used as a proxy for IQ because they correlate so well with it. >It's our need to have a single spectrum from mental retardation to genius-…

> Also SAT tests are often used as a proxy for IQ because they correlate so well with it.

That understates it. The SAT is an IQ test, strenuously as the College Board May deny it. The test was originally the scholastic aptitude test and results from it correlate with other IQ tests just as well as results from IQ tests correlate with each other.

If anybody reading wants to know more about the broad field of which IQ is a small part the Wikipedia article on psychometrics is quite good.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychometrics

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#188

Post by llamaz »

orangecat wrote: post #175
croon wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree on your overall point that you should be using your mind for something productive rather than showing off, I have to note that getting degrees has nothing (edit: very little) to do with IQ. IQ might help you understand a subject better, but being focused, studying, planning, and having the motivation is what gets you degrees.

I have to note that getting degrees has nothing (edit: very little) to do with IQ. That's just not true, even with the edit. Certainly high intelligence by itself isn't sufficient, but you're not going to find many physics PhDs with a 90 IQ.

Maybe, but you could easily get through medical school where rote memorisation, hard work, and diligence are more important. (In my country one pathway to medicine is a 6 year undergraduate degree you do straight out of highschool.)

I'm doing a double degree in elec engg and math, but I'm stupid as fuck and likely not going anywhere in life. (not being "falsely modest", I'm really struggling through my degree)

edit: I guess I should mentioned that I'm very close to finishing my degrees

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#189

Post by barry-cotter »

ben_w wrote: post #133
DoreenMichele wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that most IQ tests do not go all that high. It is quite challenging to get an accurate IQ score above a certain range. It requires not only the right assessment tools -- ie tests -- but a trained professional administering it. Gifted kids mess with test administrators all the time, sometimes intentionally so. (Plus, to get a super high score, you need to test the child by about age 7. After that age, w…

> After that age, we just cannot reliably assert that someone's IQ is, say, above 200. To add to all the other criticisms of IQ score, it’s defined to be mean-100-σ-15* — so nobody has an IQ of over 197, and only newborn anenephalactics ever score as low az IQ 3… and perhaps not even then if they score the same as the comatose. * or σ-16, which changes the subsequent statements a little.

IQ is fat tailed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat-tailed_distribution

I regret I can’t find anything on Bing but the below but Google’s blocked where I am.

https://blogs.sas.com/content/iml/2014/10/13/fat-tailed-and-...

There are some other cases where it is generally thought that the distribution is normal, but it is not (in real samples). IQ has too many people in both far ends and has a different shaped tail on the right and left (the maximum is 200 or so, but the minimum is about 40). Weight of adults also has too many in the right tail and is not fully symmetric, but its right tail is also long (unlike that for IQ).

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#190

Post by gaastonsr »

orangecat wrote: post #175
croon wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree on your overall point that you should be using your mind for something productive rather than showing off, I have to note that getting degrees has nothing (edit: very little) to do with IQ. IQ might help you understand a subject better, but being focused, studying, planning, and having the motivation is what gets you degrees.

I have to note that getting degrees has nothing (edit: very little) to do with IQ. That's just not true, even with the edit. Certainly high intelligence by itself isn't sufficient, but you're not going to find many physics PhDs with a 90 IQ.

I think the point stands. You don’t need a high IQ, just an average one.
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