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Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

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Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#91

Post by ryanwaggoner »

makotech222 wrote: post #78
dmichulke wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can build your socialist enterprise in any capitalist system, it's not like it's forbidden as long as you pay your bills.

Yes, because a socialist enterprise can exist in a system where the ultra-wealthy capitalist can 1. Buy out the company and outsource everything 2. Buy out the politicians and make laws against them 3. Use their extreme wealth to sabotage their business. 4. In the case of other nations, embargo them and assassinate their leaders, stoke pro-capitalist revolutions. Examples: See Cuba, USSR, entirety of South America, V…

Ah...I see now. Socialism has failed miserably everywhere it’s been tried, but that’s not socialism’s fault! It’s capitalism’s fault! The big bad capitalists ruined it by meddling! If only socialists could be left alone, they’d finally be able to create paradise.

I’m straw-manning here, but only a bit. Not only is this cliche defense of socialism not logical or accurate, it’s impractical.

So you need a world without adversaries or people with entrenched power before you can create your utopia?

Good luck with that.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#92

Post by makotech222 »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #82
makotech222 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://local.theonion.com/ceo-worked-way-up-from-son-of-ceo... Yeah, we wouldn't want people being wealthy beyond belief without deserving it. I can tell that you don't know the first thing about socialism.

I'm perfectly fine with some people ending up with undeserved wealth if it comes along with higher prosperity for everyone. Capitalist-leaning systems have an unbelievable track record in this regard, while socialist utopias all seem to wither and die, usually while impoverishing, starving, and murdering millions in the process. To be clear, I'm not talking about social democracy, and I'm not talking about more mixed…

Higher prosperity for everyone? Who are you talking about? I'm pretty sure the bottom 95% of capitalist countries are in complete poverty.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#93

Post by ryanwaggoner »

makotech222 wrote: post #79
ryanwaggoner wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people find extreme injustice in seeing the value of their labor being stolen by the capitalist class. Nonsense. Most people don’t think their labor is stolen or find extreme injustice in getting paid for their labor. You need to get outside your bubble.

I think you are in the bubble. How much of the world do you think gets paid fairly for their labor? The First-World conditions of America and Europe are buoyed by the dystopic conditions of labor in the Third-World. And these conditions are very visibly creeping into middle class America as well.

Compare global poverty (especially in developing economies) today to 50 years ago and tell me again about the dystopia the average human is living in because of capitalism.

If I was going to be reborn in a random country, I’d sure rather it be in 2017 than 1967, and I feel optimistic that 2067 will be much better still.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#94

Post by makotech222 »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #91
makotech222 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because a socialist enterprise can exist in a system where the ultra-wealthy capitalist can 1. Buy out the company and outsource everything 2. Buy out the politicians and make laws against them 3. Use their extreme wealth to sabotage their business. 4. In the case of other nations, embargo them and assassinate their leaders, stoke pro-capitalist revolutions. Examples: See Cuba, USSR, entirety of South America, V…

Ah...I see now. Socialism has failed miserably everywhere it’s been tried, but that’s not socialism’s fault! It’s capitalism’s fault! The big bad capitalists ruined it by meddling! If only socialists could be left alone, they’d finally be able to create paradise. I’m straw-manning here, but only a bit. Not only is this cliche defense of socialism not logical or accurate, it’s impractical. So you need a world without…

Liberalism went through the same period. Ever hear of the french revolution? Then the Napoleonic wars?

The same is and will happen with socialism. The status quo benefits a select few people (Monarchy, at the time), who will do their damndest to keep it that way. Eventually, enough people will rise up and make change happen.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#95

Post by ryanwaggoner »

andrepd wrote: post #67
dmichulke wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To elaborate: it's not stolen if you previously signed a contract that the employer can have it. Otherwise every trade would be theft right?

A mugger doesn't steal from me, if I hand my wallet to him, right? Analogously to how this is theft because of the threat of violence, so it can be argued that it is also theft/extortion due to the threat of leaving you and your family homeless and starving if you don't take my offer right now.

There’s a market for labor too, so it’s not like most people have only the choice of one employer’s offer or starvation. And no one is arguing that we shouldn’t have a social safety net of any kind to improve the BATNA of employees.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#96

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

jaredklewis wrote: post #90
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freelancing by contracting is risky. The company you work for maintains the right to fire you for no reason whatsoever, and you would not be able to earn unemployment. Also, unless you are a particularly skilled employee or are working in a hot market, you probably won't be paid as much after considering the fact that you'll have to pay for your own healthcare, your own liability insurance, do your own taxes, and dea…

While there is obviously some risk, in my experience it is very well compensated. If anything, I think an irrational level risk aversion means there are basically not enough good freelancers to go around and the demand/pay is high. The standard formula I recommend to a new freelancer is (what-you-would-make-as-salary / 50 / 5 / 8 * 2) = hourly rate. Anything less is undercharging. So if you would make 100k in salary,…

If you're able to get a salary of 100k, then you're that top 5% or 10% that I mentioned _might_ be able to do well in a hot market. There are lots of people who aren't so lucky and don't have that opportunity.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#98

Post by jcadam »

paulmatthijs wrote: post #21

There’s a thing between being entrepeneurship and working for a company: freelancing. It’s for those that feel no attachment to a company, but do have a very developed skill set or trade. In our free market economy, there will always be a system where someone hires you to create value, which costs less than it makes them, in the end. If you want a bigger slice of that pie, you need to make it a viable business case.…

Egads! I'm so ready to do this. I'm in my late 30s and have been a salaried engineer my entire career. I'm sick of corporate culture and dealing with dysfunctional petty politics. My current environment is particularly depressing. You know the office from the first part of Joe vs the Volcano? It's kind of like that :|

I'll admit, there's an element of risk aversion holding me back. That and I simply can't afford to start at the bottom and work for peanuts in order to 'build a reputation' as a freelancer.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#99

Post by jcadam »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #96
jaredklewis wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there is obviously some risk, in my experience it is very well compensated. If anything, I think an irrational level risk aversion means there are basically not enough good freelancers to go around and the demand/pay is high. The standard formula I recommend to a new freelancer is (what-you-would-make-as-salary / 50 / 5 / 8 * 2) = hourly rate. Anything less is undercharging. So if you would make 100k in salary,…

If you're able to get a salary of 100k, then you're that top 5% or 10% that I mentioned _might_ be able to do well in a hot market. There are lots of people who aren't so lucky and don't have that opportunity.

$100k isn't a particularly high salary for a software engineer in the US these days. Even in lower COL areas.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#100

Post by makotech222 »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #93
makotech222 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are in the bubble. How much of the world do you think gets paid fairly for their labor? The First-World conditions of America and Europe are buoyed by the dystopic conditions of labor in the Third-World. And these conditions are very visibly creeping into middle class America as well.

Compare global poverty (especially in developing economies) today to 50 years ago and tell me again about the dystopia the average human is living in because of capitalism. If I was going to be reborn in a random country, I’d sure rather it be in 2017 than 1967, and I feel optimistic that 2067 will be much better still.

Sure here's the comparison data: http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-sta...

And my favorite part:

"For economic growth and almost all of the other indicators, the last 20 years [of the current form of globalization, from 1980 - 2000] have shown a very clear decline in progress as compared with the previous two decades [1960 - 1980]. For each indicator, countries were divided into five roughly equal groups, according to what level the countries had achieved by the start of the period (1960 or 1980). Among the findings:

    Growth: The fall in economic growth rates was most pronounced and across the board for all groups or countries.
    Life Expectancy: Progress in life expectancy was also reduced for 4 out of the 5 groups of countries, with the exception of the highest group (life expectancy 69-76 years).
    Infant and Child Mortality: Progress in reducing infant mortality was also considerably slower during the period of globalization (1980-1998) than over the previous two decades.
    Education and literacy: Progress in education also slowed during the period of globalization.Source 29"
TL;DR: Capitalism is unsustainable. We need a new system.
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