Don't Talk to the Police (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

#121

Post by dvtv75 » Sat, Dec 09, 2017, 9:28 PM UTC

rocqua wrote: post #79

floofyfloofer wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False, since 2013, when the Supreme Court held that remaining silent wasn't sufficient to invoke your right to remain silent. "suspect did not sufficiently invoke the right to remain silent when he stubbornly refused to talk:" http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudenc...

The particulars of that case matter though. In this case, the suspect had spoken to the police, and during this didn't respond to a certain question / responded to the question with silence. If I recall correctly, the court reasoned that by first speaking, he gave up his right to remain silent. Moreover, he responded by silence rather that actively asserting his right to remain silent. Not to say I agree with the rul…

Many years ago, in New Zealand, the flatmate of a friend of mine told me much the same: if you're questioned by the police, you can't just stop talking and claim your right to silence. You gave that up by answering questions.

Re: Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

#122

Post by tertius » Sat, Dec 09, 2017, 9:29 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #101

mistermann wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that this advice forgets it's own lesson: A policeman/woman can only get you in trouble. In many cases, a copy really does just want to have a 5 minute chat, and if you stonewall them ( Am I being detained? ), they might decide to exercise their power to get you in trouble, just to return the sentiment of unreasonableness.

Right, telling someone to "say the bare minimum" doesn't mean saying nothing at all and treating the officer poorly. Don't act superior because you happen to know your rights, that's basically as bad as being a two-bit criminal in their eyes. Police don't recruit people based on their sensitivity and grasp of common sense, they are people who enjoy the power dynamic the job gives them and for the most part 99% of the…

> rebellion against this idea to them is treated as sacrosanct, at least by the average (aka dumb) officer

Stereotyping or do you have some evidence is a large population supporting this assertion?

Re: Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

#123

Post by gumby » Sat, Dec 09, 2017, 9:32 PM UTC

Simon_says wrote: post #115

joshmn wrote: post #65

As someone who has been through the criminal justice system a handful of times, here's what I always tell people: If you are approached by a policeman/woman, you don't need to say anything other than, "I'm going to ask you to refer all questions to my counsel as I'm not prepared to handle or able to answer any questions you may have." Don't have counsel? Get some. Can't afford any? Tell the policeman/woman that you'l…

I've heard this advice a lot. Have you ever followed this in real life? How did it work out for you? I worry that cops have the potential to make my life very unpleasant if I annoy them.

"I'm just asking to see if you tell the truth. If you don't answer I know you're guilty". And end up arrested.

Re: Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

#124

Post by MichaelApproved » Sat, Dec 09, 2017, 9:34 PM UTC

tscs37 wrote: post #104

I think it's a sad statement for the american justice system that this is advice people want to follow. I feel lucky I don't have to live in the USA.

What country do you live in that what you say to police can't be used against you?

Re: Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

#125

Post by edwhitesell » Sat, Dec 09, 2017, 9:38 PM UTC

While I have no law enforcement, or "lawyer-like" experience, I've been spending a fair amount of time with my local PD lately. A good friend is an assistant chief and I sometimes sit on the applicant Oral Board (the in-person interview board for people applying to be Officers). I'd sum up my comments in a couple of items:

- Always be polite. Most officers aren't jerks; but some are, and those are will look for ways to get you in trouble just because you are acting like a jerk.

- Unless you've been doing something wrong, or give them a reason to be suspicious (not answering questions is a GIANT red flag) officers almost always have good intentions. 99% of the time have better things to do than try to get someone in trouble who isn't already acting suspicious.

- If you choose to answer questions (and you should answer basic stuff IMHO), always tell the truth. If you get caught in a lie it makes everything about your interaction 100-times more difficult.

- If you choose not to answer any questions, for whatever reason, you should get to know your local/state laws regarding the things you MUST provide to officers when asked. Usually Identification is on that list, and choosing not to provide it means they can detain you.

- "Policing" has been changing dramatically the last 10 years. Most agencies are trying to use community outreach to improve relations, and in some cases fix their bad reputations. Some aren't, it's valuable to know that going into a situation, if possible.

Re: Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

#126

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 09, 2017, 9:39 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #7

How far do you take this? For example, suppose you hear someone down the street yell, "My baby!", look up, and see a man shove a woman to the ground, take a baby from a stroller, get into a car with the baby, and drive quickly up the street, leaving behind the woman screaming "He took my baby! Help!". They pass you, and a block farther up turn left onto a freeway on ramp. 30 seconds later a police officer drives by,…

[deleted]

Re: Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

#127

Post by csomar » Sat, Dec 09, 2017, 9:39 PM UTC

Simon_says wrote: post #115

joshmn wrote: post #65

As someone who has been through the criminal justice system a handful of times, here's what I always tell people: If you are approached by a policeman/woman, you don't need to say anything other than, "I'm going to ask you to refer all questions to my counsel as I'm not prepared to handle or able to answer any questions you may have." Don't have counsel? Get some. Can't afford any? Tell the policeman/woman that you'l…

I've heard this advice a lot. Have you ever followed this in real life? How did it work out for you? I worry that cops have the potential to make my life very unpleasant if I annoy them.

Who is annoying who? You are not required to answer any question. You might as well be non-polite too (I'm not suggesting it).

Re: Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

#128

Post by throwaway0255 » Sat, Dec 09, 2017, 9:39 PM UTC

ivraatiems wrote: post #114

throwaway0255 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can talk about rights and due process all you want, I’m not disagreeing with any of that, that’s great for people who can afford it. I’m talking about the practical outcome of this for average Americans. The practical outcome is that for every 1 time this advice prevents you from accidentally incriminating yourself, there will be 20 times that it just makes officers dislike you and abuse their authority over you,…

> You can talk about rights and due process all you want, I’m not disagreeing with any of that, that’s great for people who can afford it. I’m talking about the practical outcome of this for average Americans. Rights and due process apply to everyone, not just people who can afford it or people the police like. Telling someone "don't assert your rights because you're poor" is telling them to self-subjugate; that's aw…

> Do you have any evidence of this at all?

Being young and poor and interacting with the police.

Their behavior changes when the other upstanding members of society aren’t in the room.

There’s a way to navigate that situation favorably, and it doesn’t involve refusing to speak to them and hoping you get a good public defender.

Speak without saying a lot, be careful what you say, sure. But refusing to speak entirely and pretending you have an attorney is likely to just anger them (if you’re poor), and they do have the power to subject you to our criminal justice system, and people do get treated unfairly and wrongfully imprisoned all the time.

Re: Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

#129

Post by branchless » Sat, Dec 09, 2017, 9:40 PM UTC

rhizome wrote: post #91

tzs wrote: post #7

How far do you take this? For example, suppose you hear someone down the street yell, "My baby!", look up, and see a man shove a woman to the ground, take a baby from a stroller, get into a car with the baby, and drive quickly up the street, leaving behind the woman screaming "He took my baby! Help!". They pass you, and a block farther up turn left onto a freeway on ramp. 30 seconds later a police officer drives by,…

Do you say "it looked like he turned left a block up"? Or do you say "I will not answer without a lawyer"? I've run into a lot of people who go with the latter, citing that video. Then the police need to work on policy and community relations if people are reticent to help them, when altruism can be a punishable act.

Surely any country with citizens having this conversation is close to collapse, no?

Re: Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

#130

Post by Simon_says » Sat, Dec 09, 2017, 9:43 PM UTC

csomar wrote: post #127

Simon_says wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard this advice a lot. Have you ever followed this in real life? How did it work out for you? I worry that cops have the potential to make my life very unpleasant if I annoy them.

Who is annoying who? You are not required to answer any question. You might as well be non-polite too (I'm not suggesting it).

Well, in my philosophy, the guy with the gun and the legal authority to arrest is the one who gets to decide who's annoying, unfortunately.