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Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

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Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#41

Post by ryanwaggoner »

andrepd wrote: post #29
makotech222 wrote: post #4

Congratulations, you have discovered socialism. Most people find extreme injustice in seeing the value of their labor being stolen by the capitalist class. Socialism is an economic system that does away with the employer-employee distinction and allows all workers to take ownership of their own labor. In practice, this means the democratization of the workplace, and the end to the autocratic workplace. Edit: To actua…

Absolutely. >I resent spending 48 weeks a year in an office and stressing over issues that will only make the company's owners richer but won't change much for me. I say don't change much because a 2-3% raise once in a while is nice, but it's nothing in comparison to the thousands/millions extra it will make the company, while the only result for me is that I get to keep my job and do more of that. Who wouldn't resen…

Or maybe most people just don’t have such a simplistic view of the world?

People who advocate for socialism just want the rewards of capitalism without any of the risks.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#42

Post by weirdstuff »

staunch wrote: post #23
makotech222 wrote: post #4

Congratulations, you have discovered socialism. Most people find extreme injustice in seeing the value of their labor being stolen by the capitalist class. Socialism is an economic system that does away with the employer-employee distinction and allows all workers to take ownership of their own labor. In practice, this means the democratization of the workplace, and the end to the autocratic workplace. Edit: To actua…

Socialism is only a valid answer if you don't understand technology. If you think there's a fixed pie and we have to forcibly break it into rations so that everyone gets at least something . But technology offers a much better solution, which is grow the pie large enough that everyone has as much as they want. There are no physical limitations to this concept. The universe is rich with everything we need for billions…

This is a sentiment that I think is termed "technological utopianism" and it has limits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_utopianism

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#43

Post by cookiecaper »

makotech222 wrote: post #4

Congratulations, you have discovered socialism. Most people find extreme injustice in seeing the value of their labor being stolen by the capitalist class. Socialism is an economic system that does away with the employer-employee distinction and allows all workers to take ownership of their own labor. In practice, this means the democratization of the workplace, and the end to the autocratic workplace. Edit: To actua…

The 20th century has thoroughly proven out the naivety of this position. Political and economic systems conform themselves to reality, not the other way 'round, for better or worse.

The reality is that we live in a world of scarcity, and have unchangeable biological impulses toward hoarding resources and other exclusionary survival behaviors. Capitalism provides the _most fair_ solution under the unchangeable physical realities that govern human life.

You can't wave a political magic wand and do away with all unfairness in the world. A lot of people tried that over the last 100 years. One quick honest look at the wreckage should be more than enough to disabuse anyone of these ideas.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#44

Post by outside1234 »

weirdstuff wrote: post #25
outside1234 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who thinks this is a great idea should take a trip to Cuba. Seriously. I had the same affliction and about 8 days into Cuba I was totally cured.

Cuba is a cherry-picked example and is misleading. Other socialist countries that are doing better: China; Denmark; Finland; Netherlands; Canada; Sweden; Norway; Ireland. Don't forget Cuba has been forced into economic isolation by the US. And places like Venezuela and Detroit were overly dependent on too few industries and are plagued by massive wealth inequality. You can also find persistent systemic poverty in cap…

There is social democracy and there is socialism.

I am totally with social democracy like your European examples where health care, education, and other things are basic rights and investments that everyone in the country should enjoy.

That said, nobody in Norway or Sweden are guaranteed jobs and the working culture is actually pretty similar to the most of the west, including having to work for demanding bosses.

True socialism is a nightmare that guarantees nothing more than everyone has the same, which is usually very little.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#45

Post by andrepd »

outside1234 wrote: post #14
makotech222 wrote: post #4

Congratulations, you have discovered socialism. Most people find extreme injustice in seeing the value of their labor being stolen by the capitalist class. Socialism is an economic system that does away with the employer-employee distinction and allows all workers to take ownership of their own labor. In practice, this means the democratization of the workplace, and the end to the autocratic workplace. Edit: To actua…

Anyone who thinks this is a great idea should take a trip to Cuba. Seriously. I had the same affliction and about 8 days into Cuba I was totally cured.

Can you elaborate? Specifically:

* Out of the dozens of countries that have/had socialist governments (let's ignore those where US intervention prevented that from happening, against the will of the people) why did you choose Cuba?

* What failings of Cuba do you attribute to socialism, and do not see happening in capitalist countries?

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#46

Post by ryanwaggoner »

dmichulke wrote: post #39
ryanwaggoner wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people find extreme injustice in seeing the value of their labor being stolen by the capitalist class. Nonsense. Most people don’t think their labor is stolen or find extreme injustice in getting paid for their labor. You need to get outside your bubble.

To elaborate: it's not stolen if you previously signed a contract that the employer can have it. Otherwise every trade would be theft right?

Hardcore socialists apparently think that’s true. After all, if the other person wants it, they must be taking advantage of me! They all operate from a fixed pie / scarcity mentality, and must have missed the basic economics class where you learn that parties can trade where ALL end up better off than if you didn’t.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#47

Post by RyanZAG »

weirdstuff wrote: post #25
outside1234 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who thinks this is a great idea should take a trip to Cuba. Seriously. I had the same affliction and about 8 days into Cuba I was totally cured.

Cuba is a cherry-picked example and is misleading. Other socialist countries that are doing better: China; Denmark; Finland; Netherlands; Canada; Sweden; Norway; Ireland. Don't forget Cuba has been forced into economic isolation by the US. And places like Venezuela and Detroit were overly dependent on too few industries and are plagued by massive wealth inequality. You can also find persistent systemic poverty in cap…

> My boss getting a new Tesla or yet another house from the extra profits doesn't make me happy.

Hang on, last I checked everyone still gets employed in China; Denmark; Finland; Netherlands; Canada; Sweden; Norway; Ireland the same way they get employed in all the other countries. All the bosses in those countries you mentioned still drive the new Telsa and have bigger houses. So wouldn't this kind of socialism not actually be a solution for the OP's problem?

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#48

Post by wellboy »

Yes, freelancing, but then you will probably feel dissatisfied that you're not soing something meaningful and that the lack of socializing depresses you.

I believe the problem isn't the work, but inside of you. Have you tried improving your own life? Getting a meaningful hobby, volunteering, building a meaningful circle of friends, moving to the city that you love most, finding a significant other that you love above anything else, starting a family. Those things really fill your life with meaning.

Apart from that, if you don't want to be working at a company, you need to build your freelancing agency and you need to be good at it, so that after a few years, you have a client base that pays really well and other people do the work for you, so that you only need to work 10-20h per week or less. Then you can focus on the things above that really matter.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#49

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

paulmatthijs wrote: post #21

There’s a thing between being entrepeneurship and working for a company: freelancing. It’s for those that feel no attachment to a company, but do have a very developed skill set or trade. In our free market economy, there will always be a system where someone hires you to create value, which costs less than it makes them, in the end. If you want a bigger slice of that pie, you need to make it a viable business case.…

Freelancing by contracting is risky. The company you work for maintains the right to fire you for no reason whatsoever, and you would not be able to earn unemployment. Also, unless you are a particularly skilled employee or are working in a hot market, you probably won't be paid as much after considering the fact that you'll have to pay for your own healthcare, your own liability insurance, do your own taxes, and deal with the considerable gaps in employment since freelancers are some of the first that are fired at a company.

Freelancing may work well for the top 5% or 10%, but it's not a good thing for most.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#50

Post by weirdstuff »

outside1234 wrote: post #44
weirdstuff wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cuba is a cherry-picked example and is misleading. Other socialist countries that are doing better: China; Denmark; Finland; Netherlands; Canada; Sweden; Norway; Ireland. Don't forget Cuba has been forced into economic isolation by the US. And places like Venezuela and Detroit were overly dependent on too few industries and are plagued by massive wealth inequality. You can also find persistent systemic poverty in cap…

There is social democracy and there is socialism. I am totally with social democracy like your European examples where health care, education, and other things are basic rights and investments that everyone in the country should enjoy. That said, nobody in Norway or Sweden are guaranteed jobs and the working culture is actually pretty similar to the most of the west, including having to work for demanding bosses. Tru…

I don't think anything like "true socialism" could exist. Just like "true capitalism" or a "true scotsman".
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