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Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

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Re: Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

#61

Post by jwatte »

golergka wrote: post #41
kazagistar wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Verify the firearm and attempt a non-lethal solution.

And would that be a good decision in a typical situation that combines said data points?

It should be. Society is better off when the trained, paid officers, bear the risk, rather than unarmed civilians.

As it is, any police officer can claim "I felt threatened" and do whatever they want. That is 100% a recipe for thuggery and oppression that does not belong in a civilized democracy.

Proposal: always verify the gun. If you shoot someone that actually didn't have a weapon, it's manslaughter. If you plant a gun, it's murder.

Re: Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

#62

Post by gtirloni »

golergka wrote: post #41
kazagistar wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Verify the firearm and attempt a non-lethal solution.

And would that be a good decision in a typical situation that combines said data points?

The situation was not ONLY about those two data points. I think you're conveniently ignoring other facts like: he complied with police orders from the beginning, they had ample time to handcuff him, the police officer was imprecise in giving instructions and constantly threatened to kill him, etc, etc, etc.

Police officers carrying Semi-Automatic weapons should not get a free pass to act as robots without situational awareness.

Re: Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

#63

Post by Uehreka »

gst wrote: post #53
sp821543 wrote: post #40

I believe the lawyer in the video, James Duane, now recommends the phrase, "I want a lawyer," as the correct response to any police question. As some have mentioned, mere silence is not enough to invoke one's constitutional rights and could in fact be used as a legal argument as to your guilt.

If I get arrested and say "I want a lawyer". What lawyer do I get? A random public defender? A private defender? If it's private defender, am I able to ask for another lawyer if the fees are too high? Will that lawyer refer me to another more specialized lawyer later on?

I always wonder this when people bring this up. Am I a weirdo for not having a lawyer on retainer at all times? That doesn’t sound like something that would be affordable for most people. And quite frankly, I don’t even know how I’d go about looking for or evaluating a lawyer.

Re: Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

#64

Post by jwatte »

Society is better off if everyone can speak openly to police. Meanwhile, the risk to any one person that might accidentally mis-speak is wholly unacceptable to the individual. So we end up with tragedy of the commons.

How did we fuck this up so badly as a society?

Re: Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

#65

Post by joshmn »

As someone who has been through the criminal justice system a handful of times, here's what I always tell people:

If you are approached by a policeman/woman, you don't need to say anything other than, "I'm going to ask you to refer all questions to my counsel as I'm not prepared to handle or able to answer any questions you may have."

Don't have counsel? Get some. Can't afford any? Tell the policeman/woman that you'll "confer with your legal team" and if your "legal team" believes it's appropriate to answer questions, you'll let them know. Oh, and call your local public defender's office.

A policeman/woman may, "just want to talk" or, "ask you a few questions"; that's okay, just repeat what you said. They may say "you're not in trouble" and that's great, so repeat what you said.

A policeman/woman can only get you in trouble, they cannot get you out of trouble.

When it comes to court, our public defenders system, while it means well, is horribly broken. PDs are often assigned far too many cases they can reasonably handle. PDs don't go to trial often enough, because they can't handle the additional workload.

Re: Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

#66

Post by gtirloni »

golergka wrote: post #46
cryoshon wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

easy. the kid was pinned down, face down, from the very start of the video. officer 1 advances to cuff, officer 2 covers. so fucking simple.

See, here's the difference - I'm talking about a pattern, and you're talking about the exact situation. You can't train most people to act according to each individual situation in an intelligent manner, especially when situation is very scary, and those rare people who can be trained to do this are usually in special ops, not in regular police. So, when considering a police or military response to a situation, consi…

The officer said he was afraid for his life and "terrified".

You know who would be terrified in a situation like that? Me. I have never even held a gun and I have no training whatsoever.

A police officer shouldn't be terrified in a situation like that. He had a suspect with hands in the air clearly willing to comply. This is such bullshit.

Re: Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

#67

Post by c22 »

Uehreka wrote: post #63
gst wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I get arrested and say "I want a lawyer". What lawyer do I get? A random public defender? A private defender? If it's private defender, am I able to ask for another lawyer if the fees are too high? Will that lawyer refer me to another more specialized lawyer later on?

I always wonder this when people bring this up. Am I a weirdo for not having a lawyer on retainer at all times? That doesn’t sound like something that would be affordable for most people. And quite frankly, I don’t even know how I’d go about looking for or evaluating a lawyer.

You don't need a lawyer on retainer, but it's probably good to know the phone number of one. If they can't take your case they will let you know and likely refer you to a colleague.

Re: Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

#69

Post by Gargoyle »

c22 wrote: post #67
Uehreka wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder this when people bring this up. Am I a weirdo for not having a lawyer on retainer at all times? That doesn’t sound like something that would be affordable for most people. And quite frankly, I don’t even know how I’d go about looking for or evaluating a lawyer.

You don't need a lawyer on retainer, but it's probably good to know the phone number of one. If they can't take your case they will let you know and likely refer you to a colleague.

I keep the business cards of a couple of lawyers in my wallet. One I've dealt with on business matters (but certainly isn't on retainer) and one I know socially who does criminal defense. As you say, I figure if they can't help me personally, they'll know someone who can.

Re: Don't Talk to the Police (2012)

#70

Post by drdeadringer »

golergka wrote: post #41
kazagistar wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Verify the firearm and attempt a non-lethal solution.

And would that be a good decision in a typical situation that combines said data points?

You appear to be fishing for an answer you are expecting but are not getting. Please explain why you want the answer to be "no" or "the shooting was correct".
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