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Police Homicides in the United States

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Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#81

Post by chrisan »

cybersol wrote: post #57
katastic wrote: post #42

That's a super careful wording when you realize two thirds of all people are killed by someone close to them.

The article says that 75% are killed by people close to them. Of the remaining 25% killed by strangers, two-thirds of those are killed by non-police-officers.

Can we then say 8.3% of people killed are by police?

75% killed by people close to them (not sure if they showed police close to them deaths)

16.6% killed by a stanger

8.3% killed by a police stranger (not that that is good!)

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#82

Post by tomalpha »

always_good wrote: post #55
Shivetya wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, America is not fucked. If these videos did not have impact then we would be fucked. That they are still so shocking shows that we haven't become police state dystopia that we see in fiction or sadly in parts of this world.

How exactly does being shocked move the needle on how many militarized power-tripping clowns there are on the police force? How's that going to change the incumbent culture of badge protection? Being shocked certainly hasn't stopped it from happening. So what's the secret? I'm shocked this time because I haven't seen footage so bad. But I won't be shocked the next time...

Not OP, and not quite he same argument, but at least you’re still shocked. That might be cold comfort to the dead man, but it does suggest there could be a glimmer of hope. If everyone stops being shocked at things like this, it will have been completely normalized.

As soon as you’re at the point where someone can say unchallenged something like “oh yeah, another black man’s been shot, who cares”, then perhaps there’s less hope.

The US isn’t there yet is it?

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#83

Post by ci5er »

pron wrote: post #78
ci5er wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think resisting arrest qualifies This pull quote isn't related to your main point, but to digress a bit on it... The state, having a presumed monopoly on the legitimate use of pre-emptive force, reacts this way to application of laws, no? For example - there is a law that says that I can't plant pink flowers or sell looseys or whatever. I violate that law. The progression of consequences subsequently goes l…

> How can we NOT expect cops to kill us? That's what the state is - that's what it does That's not what happens in most countries, though, so clearly it's not a problem with "the state", but with American law enforcement. Police can overpower one unarmed person, regardless of how strongly he resists, without killing him. Not only they can , but that's what they do in most places: you resist -- they take you by force,…

> That's not what happens in most countries ... with American ...

Fair point. In the process of resisting, USians are a risk of shooting back.

But I can't say whether I agree or disagree with your election of the qualifier "most"

In my small (I say) set of adversarial encounters with law enforcement in Japan, Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam, there were more than one person on the law-enforcement side of the encounter that appeared more than willing to do terminal violence, should there be any sort of excuse to do so. And those are "nice" places! I don't know what I would have found if I'd actually gone somewhere rough...

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#84

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

flexie wrote: post #53

In a few hours the Americans will wake up and a bunch of them on HN will say that it's a loaded or divisive or misleading title or that the statistics is flawed. And HN is decisively more progressive than most of the country which simply ignores this kind of news. It is the way it is in America, because - as a whole - they don't care that much about gun violence. It's mostly blacks and Latinos getting killed and they…

> they don't care that much about gun violence

Don't blame either our messed up political system or our militarized police on us. At this point, our government is a corporate oligarchy that has been gerrymandered and rigged to the point that our vote does not matter, and the low pay of our cops combined with the stream of military gear and low amount of training made them trigger-happy.

It's not our people that want this.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#85

Post by maxxxxx »

foepys wrote: post #12

3 years ago German police officer /u/krautcop posted on reddit about his opinion on why police violence is much higher in the US than in Germany. [1] This might open a new perspective to some people. 1: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskLEO/comments/2dgwkp/what_makes_a...

Nice read. Some personal experience: in the 1980s during my mandatory time at German military I was military police. At things like Oktoberfest we had to work with the American MPs to deal with drunk American soldiers when they were causing trouble . One thing that was very noticeable that we were trained to deflect violence and retreat if possible to call more people. The MPs on the other hand had more of an attitude to directly confront the situation and quickly resolve problems with force if necessary. They seemed to take things more personally and didn't want to let the bad guys win. Another thing I noticed was at a shooting range. We had to account for each bullet whereas the Americans would hand out piles of bullets liberally.

I also never even thought about somebody having a gun whereas in the US I guess this fear is always there.

This is only my personal experience but after working with the MPs and now living in the US I think part of it is the competitiveness in the US. People want to win. That includes cops who want to win over their adversaries and not look like losers.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#86

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #7
adamnemecek wrote: post #4

I’m guessing this was posted in response to the release of a cop who murdered David Shaver http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-daniel-sha... When did this dystopia begin? It wasn’t too long ago right? What can I do to prevent this? There isn’t an organized dissent group. Idk what it really that I want.

I would think Black Lives Matter would be an organized resistance group, no?

It's an organized resistance group, but it's not what we need. Just the name Black Lives Matter is loaded with racial connotations that don't help the situation. We need to focus on police demilitarization everywhere and with everyone, not just around a single race.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#87

Post by imjasonmiller »

foepys wrote: post #12

3 years ago German police officer /u/krautcop posted on reddit about his opinion on why police violence is much higher in the US than in Germany. [1] This might open a new perspective to some people. 1: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskLEO/comments/2dgwkp/what_makes_a...

Interesting, thanks for sharing!

There was a video on how Germany and The Netherlands tackle cross-border crime. They ride in pairs, one German, one Dutch. What the Dutch officer highlighted was that the German officer was allowed to reach for his gun, hold it to his/her side and put it back without reporting he/she did so. This would not be allowed in The Netherlands and one would have to report that this was done. Reaching for your gun is a big thing here.

Unfortunately the video is in Dutch: https://youtu.be/v4TyJUEMPVU (4:40)

If you need a translation of certain parts, just ask.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#88

Post by makepanic »

mitchellberry wrote: post #39
bufferoverflow wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the percentage of the police killing are unjustified though? Even in this video the guy is reaching behind his back a couple of times, while being told to keep them visible.

You watched the entire video? It's 5 minutes of conflicting instructions and repeated death threats by a man heavily covered in tattoos carrying an assualt rifle with the words "you're f *ed" engraved on it. How were the multiple police officers incapable of handcuffing the clearly compliant crying victim in 5 whole mins? Am amazed anyone watching that could possibly defend it.

Just a small note, the person that shouts the instructions is Sgt. Charles Langley but the shooter is Philip “Mitch” Brailsford.

via https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/12/0...

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#89

Post by stoolpigeon »

keiferski wrote: post #45
TeMPOraL wrote: post #13

Interesting analysis. As a counterpoint to the headline that might be little fear-inducing, my first reaction when reading it was: only so little? Things must be bad. I mean: the perfect situation is when there are no homicides at all. But in a little less perfect imaginary world, in which bad people never get the chance to hurt innocents because police stops it, some bad people might still go down resisting arrest,…

This is based on a false assumption: that the proper police response to life-threatening criminal acts is to kill the perpetrator. If you get past the they deserve it Puritan mentality, the ideal scenario is for police minimize death (of criminals and police officers) at all costs. Numerous other countries handle violent criminals in ways other than "kill them immediately"; the tendency of police officers to use imme…

It's not a Puritan mentality. It's the fact that any person they interact with could be armed. The reason many other countries police deal with violent criminals in a different way is because it is very unlikely those criminals will be armed.

Where I live (Hungary) there is almost no gun violence. The few instances I'm aware of that do involve guns are things where violent groups are involved like organized crime or right-wing groups. In those cases I think that the police go in prepared for something different when they interact with people on a day to day basis.

When I moved here from the US it was a big adjustment. I would hear a loud bang and think someone had fired off a gun. Now I hear the same noise and realize it is fireworks or construction. When I'm out in the city I no longer have to worry about an armed confrontation and that's relaxing. In fact I didn't realize how much those things weighed on me in the US until I got away from it.

The proliferation of guns is the reason so many people get shot in the US and it's no surprise the police are a big part of it.

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