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Police Homicides in the United States

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Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#51

Interesting analysis. As a counterpoint to the headline that might be little fear-inducing, my first reaction when reading it was: only so little? Things must be bad. I mean: the perfect situation is when there are no homicides at all. But in a little less perfect imaginary world, in which bad people never get the chance to hurt innocents because police stops it, some bad people might still go down resisting arrest,…

Statistics are funny this way. I know what you are arguing but it really is a distraction from what is a very serious issue in America.

It's not a distraction at all, it is in fact cutting to the bone of the argument - the article is using that statistic to push the point of view that things are worse than we've all accepted, and TeMPOraL is pointing out that in a better world, that statistic would look even worse. So this article adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.

If we want to talk about the serious issue in America, let's talk about the number of unjustified homicides committed by police versus by others. I and most people don't care one shred about situations where a criminal is pointing a gun at another person and gets shot, that's exactly what should happen, and in many or most police shootings that's the way it goes down. Those make up a big part of the number in this article.

FWIW I'm not disagreeing that abuses by police are a serious problem in America, I think they are, and we need to do something about that, and it goes much deeper than just when they kill. Using shoddy numbers to promote awareness is counterproductive, though, because anyone who doesn't already agree with the conclusion will immediately see what's wrong with the argument, and dig their heels in deeper. There are enough real statistics to talk about (BLM has done a great job promoting those, so I won't dig them up here) that we don't need to resort to misleading linkbait ones.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#53
In a few hours the Americans will wake up and a bunch of them on HN will say that it's a loaded or divisive or misleading title or that the statistics is flawed. And HN is decisively more progressive than most of the country which simply ignores this kind of news.

It is the way it is in America, because - as a whole - they don't care that much about gun violence.

It's mostly blacks and Latinos getting killed and they are still minorities. And the poor white Americans that also fall victim to police and other gun violence just don't have much political influence.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the reality you described is the basis for the movie minority report, where the cops are so good crimes are stopped before they happen. If I am a relatively good person when I decide to commit a crime there would be no warning for cops. There’s no trail of paperwork, rap sheet, or perp associates... if cops were to be able to stop me given what I just described, I’m not sure I would want to live in that rea…

> I believe the reality you described is the basis for the movie minority report, where the cops are so good crimes are stopped before they happen. Or maybe criminals are mostly nonviolent. Implementation details, anyway. What I was aiming at is: in a world where the only people killed are ones who absolutely deserve it, the statistics would likely show that close to 100% of homicides are committed by police. > With…

In places without the death penalty, the set of people who "absolutely deserve it" is, by definition, null.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#55

One of the worst videos I've seen on the internet is the Daniel Shaver execution from last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M62Va6Ft2cw The Sergeant (voice in the vid) thinks he's fucking Jigsaw, and he wasn't even the guy that pulled the trigger. America is fucked.

No, America is not fucked. If these videos did not have impact then we would be fucked. That they are still so shocking shows that we haven't become police state dystopia that we see in fiction or sadly in parts of this world.

How exactly does being shocked move the needle on how many militarized power-tripping clowns there are on the police force? How's that going to change the incumbent culture of badge protection?

Being shocked certainly hasn't stopped it from happening. So what's the secret?

I'm shocked this time because I haven't seen footage so bad. But I won't be shocked the next time...

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#56

I can't manage to read the whole thing. It starts from an assumption of guilt and corruption. It is looking for support for an accusation. Such an agenda does not make for good science. Don't get me wrong. I would be very interested in finding real solutions for the tendency to see Blacks gunned down by the police. My assumption is this known trend is the driving force behind this piece. I just think this is the wron…

>finding real solutions for the tendency to see Blacks gunned down by the police

Stop hiring racist police. Stop aquiting police of murder. Stop using tax payers dollars to pay for compensation claims.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#57

That's a super careful wording when you realize two thirds of all people are killed by someone close to them.

The article says that 75% are killed by people close to them. Of the remaining 25% killed by strangers, two-thirds of those are killed by non-police-officers.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the percentage of the police killing are unjustified though? Even in this video the guy is reaching behind his back a couple of times, while being told to keep them visible.

By those rules you can make any shooting justifiable. The man in the video is clearly distressed and trying to obey. The officer escalates the situation significantly.

I didn't say this shooting was justified, I said he was reaching, and the cop didn't shoot him when that happened.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#59

Interesting analysis. As a counterpoint to the headline that might be little fear-inducing, my first reaction when reading it was: only so little? Things must be bad. I mean: the perfect situation is when there are no homicides at all. But in a little less perfect imaginary world, in which bad people never get the chance to hurt innocents because police stops it, some bad people might still go down resisting arrest,…

This is based on a false assumption: that the proper police response to life-threatening criminal acts is to kill the perpetrator. If you get past the they deserve it Puritan mentality, the ideal scenario is for police minimize death (of criminals and police officers) at all costs. Numerous other countries handle violent criminals in ways other than "kill them immediately"; the tendency of police officers to use imme…

the tendency of police officers to use immediate lethal violence can most likely be explained by the aforementioned Puritan "punishment" mentality

It must be horrible to be an American cop. All that training, the weapons, the body armour, the radio to immediately summon a whole squad of armed goons who may or may not even have a tank, and they regularly feel so terrified by women in pyjamas or pet doggos that they must immediately resort to lethal force.

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