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Bitcoin is none of the things it was supposed to be

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Re: Bitcoin is none of the things it was supposed to be

#41

Post by AlexandrB »

Bitcoin seems like just another medium of exchange. Almost all the properties of bitcoin - decentralization, anonymity, worldwide acceptance - apply equally well to gold bullion. The one additional property bitcoin had was convenience. But as transaction costs increase this is becoming less true.

Given the above, why would anyone expect bitcoin to behave differently than physical gold in the real world? The world of gold is chock full of middlemen, dubious financial instruments, and companies taking advantage of those that don't know better. Bitcoin is just following the same well-tread path.

Re: Bitcoin is none of the things it was supposed to be

#43

Post by spookthesunset »

vintageseltzer wrote: post #19
pc2g4d wrote: post #14

The high transaction fees are forcing Bitcoin in this direction. If buying a hamburger cost you $30 in fees on top of the $6 burger, you'd stop using dollars for everyday purchases, too. Seems we're stuck in this situation so long as the block size remains where it is. That artificially reduces the supply of transactions, forcing the price up. No matter how many miners there are competing for those transaction fees,…

The Lightning Network is meant to address this: https://lightning.network/

Lightning network is the biggest pile of vaporware in be whole mess. It’s been “just around the corner” for years now.

Re: Bitcoin is none of the things it was supposed to be

#44

Post by acchow »

AlexandrB wrote: post #41

Bitcoin seems like just another medium of exchange. Almost all the properties of bitcoin - decentralization, anonymity, worldwide acceptance - apply equally well to gold bullion. The one additional property bitcoin had was convenience. But as transaction costs increase this is becoming less true. Given the above, why would anyone expect bitcoin to behave differently than physical gold in the real world? The world of…

You can't send $50M of gold halfway around the world for $3.

Re: Bitcoin is none of the things it was supposed to be

#45

Post by spookthesunset »

_red wrote: post #13
curuinor wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, then, exactly is the difference between your scenario and Coinbase being the bank?

Coinbase can't print money.

MtGox printed money. Lots of exchanges probably do but since they are unregulated and completely opaque you’ll never know for sure.

Re: Bitcoin is none of the things it was supposed to be

#46

Post by cdancette »

colorint wrote: post #25
_red wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coinbase can't print money.

Banks can't print money either, and this isn't some "ackshually it's the Mint" thing: banks have the power to create debt. But this isn't special, because you and I also have the power to create debt. What makes a bank special is that debt is its business (so most of its operation concerns the management of debt), and much of its debt can be called on demand, and so we call banks' debts to us demand deposits. Fractio…

You can't really create debt with money that you don't have, as the banks do.

You can't make 1000$ appear on my bank account and say " you now have a debt of 1000$ to me". You need to give me physical money. But bank can create this money they don't have.

Re: Bitcoin is none of the things it was supposed to be

#47

Post by zbentley »

pkulak wrote: post #18
pc2g4d wrote: post #14

The high transaction fees are forcing Bitcoin in this direction. If buying a hamburger cost you $30 in fees on top of the $6 burger, you'd stop using dollars for everyday purchases, too. Seems we're stuck in this situation so long as the block size remains where it is. That artificially reduces the supply of transactions, forcing the price up. No matter how many miners there are competing for those transaction fees,…

No one who owns BTC wants it used for transactions. They want it to be an investment and go up forever, so they'll never go with a fork that allows it. It's like home owners in a neighborhood locking out new construction so their own homes raise in value.

You know, that's quite insightful. HOAs (Home Owners' Associations) are also responsible for some pretty egregious local/municipal legislative blockage as well.

Re: Bitcoin is none of the things it was supposed to be

#48

Post by jhiska »

rafiki6 wrote: post #38
jhiska wrote: post #11

It's not Wall Street's fault or whatever boogie man's fault that the Bitcoin tech doesn't actually work as some idealistic libertarian creator imagined it would; the fault is in Bitcoin's design itself. Even if the price wasn't fluctuating like crazy it simply doesn't work well as a currency due to technical limitations (eg, the time and cost it takes to process a transaction in the real world has always been impract…

Something this volatile is considered a good value store? The reason gold is a good value store is not only because of it's general acceptance and obvious physical properties but also because it's a non-volatile element physically and monetarily. Gold doesn't experience 1000% gains in like a week followed by equivalent losses.

Right now, no. It's in a bubble. But in the long-term there are people in Wall Street who look at it that way -- which is part of the reason why Bitcoin Futures are coming.

Being able to short Bitcoin should keep the value more in line with reality -- even if people eager to short might lose money as bubbles sometimes go for longer than they reasonably should.

Re: Bitcoin is none of the things it was supposed to be

#49

Post by diego_moita »

The best criticism I've seen on Bitcoin is, by far, Paul Krugman's "Bitcoin is Evil" [1]. In essence: Bitcoin doesn't have "monetary policy" to regulate it's supply. That's why it is prone to speculative bubbles and very dangerous as money.

[1] https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/28/bitcoin-is-evil...

Re: Bitcoin is none of the things it was supposed to be

#50

Post by ordinaryradical »

cryptodogemoon wrote: post #37
vintageseltzer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Lightning Network is meant to address this: https://lightning.network/

Why bother attempting to patch on layers on top of BTC when it's already centralized with ASIC farms? Start fresh. Early adopters of BTC are trying to con new users into buying coins produced for minimal capital/computational work. The flaw in BTC is inherent to the malicious minting algorithm designed to harm new users. There's other cryptocurrencies who are far out pacing the BTC core team.

Which currencies do you see as addressing these problems in a technically proven way?
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