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Lisp at the Frontier of Computation [video]

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Re: Lisp at the Frontier of Computation [video]

#21

Post by [deleted] »

flavio81 wrote: post #18
goatlover wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lisp seems to take the exact opposite approach as Go. The power of languages like Lisp appeal to me, so I have a hard time understanding why people want a language that intentionally limits itself. Read Graham's book and he's talking about how macros are great for writing maintainable code because you can make it both short and very readable because it's close to the domain. But then you hear the arguments in favor o…

> Lisp seems to take the exact opposite approach as Go. The power of languages like Lisp appeal to me, so I have a hard time understanding why people want a language that intentionally limits itself. Me too. I don't understand how people in HN vouch for restrictive languages.

[deleted]

Re: Lisp at the Frontier of Computation [video]

#22

Post by zardo »

flavio81 wrote: post #18
goatlover wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lisp seems to take the exact opposite approach as Go. The power of languages like Lisp appeal to me, so I have a hard time understanding why people want a language that intentionally limits itself. Read Graham's book and he's talking about how macros are great for writing maintainable code because you can make it both short and very readable because it's close to the domain. But then you hear the arguments in favor o…

> Lisp seems to take the exact opposite approach as Go. The power of languages like Lisp appeal to me, so I have a hard time understanding why people want a language that intentionally limits itself. Me too. I don't understand how people in HN vouch for restrictive languages.

People don't want powerful features because they can be misapplied, making a mess. These people aren't worried that they will make a mess of their own code, they are worried that they will have to deal with someone else's mess.

What happens as you add more developers to a code base, with larger variance in ability and favored abstractions is going to be important in some cases, and irrelevant in others.

Re: Lisp at the Frontier of Computation [video]

#24

Post by flavio81 »

Slackwise wrote: post #20
flavio81 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is one of the very few languages where the source code is made of a data structure that the language is very good at manipulating. Thus, writing code that generates code, be it at runtime or at compile-time, is downright easy in Lisp. This opens up enormous possibilities not found in other languages. Also, on regular programming languages, your code executes only at run time. In Lisp, or at least in Common Lisp (a…

Whenever I want someone to understand Lisp being a homoiconic metaprogramming language, I link them this: http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/lisp.html

That's a great link!

Re: Lisp at the Frontier of Computation [video]

#25

Post by rhaps0dy »

flavio81 wrote: post #18
goatlover wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lisp seems to take the exact opposite approach as Go. The power of languages like Lisp appeal to me, so I have a hard time understanding why people want a language that intentionally limits itself. Read Graham's book and he's talking about how macros are great for writing maintainable code because you can make it both short and very readable because it's close to the domain. But then you hear the arguments in favor o…

> Lisp seems to take the exact opposite approach as Go. The power of languages like Lisp appeal to me, so I have a hard time understanding why people want a language that intentionally limits itself. Me too. I don't understand how people in HN vouch for restrictive languages.

Also, less restrictive languages are computationally harder (most of the times so hard they become impossible in practice) to formally verify.

Re: Lisp at the Frontier of Computation [video]

#28

Post by reikonomusha »

rhaps0dy wrote: post #27

My first thought on seeing the python-lisp HTTP bridge diagram was Hy http://docs.hylang.org/en/stable/ . Though with Hy you don't get optional types and optimisation and SBCL.

You might also think of CLPython [0], a (somewhat bare-bones, C-incompatible) Python implementation in Common Lisp.

[0] https://common-lisp.net/project/clpython/

Re: Lisp at the Frontier of Computation [video]

#29

Post by tunesmith »

flavio81 wrote: post #16
nafizh wrote: post #7

Every time, I see one of these links or videos, I feel the urge to learn Lisp. But after some time, I lose the motivation. I think that is because I don't know what benefit learning lisp will provide me concretely. Anyone has any suggestion?

It is one of the very few languages where the source code is made of a data structure that the language is very good at manipulating. Thus, writing code that generates code, be it at runtime or at compile-time, is downright easy in Lisp. This opens up enormous possibilities not found in other languages. Also, on regular programming languages, your code executes only at run time. In Lisp, or at least in Common Lisp (a…

The problem for me is that I've learned to avoid macros in other languages. It seems to me that when you've got a fairly complex program, you need a fairly complex mental model of what the program "is" to understand it. But if you introduce macros, or code writing code, then you have a much more complex mental model since now even what the code "is" can change. What is it about lisp that makes this an easier sell?
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