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Learn to sell

blairreeves.me

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Re: Learn to sell

#31
post #4

The life of an engineer is a life if sacrifice and 7 days a week work for five days pay. Often you never have a partner so you're the most highly taxed people in the country especially in California. While you often work triple time you're rarely if ever paid for overtime it's taken for granted that you're not ever compensated for 3/4 of the hours you work. Nothing can happen without you but sales people get a piece…

Why don't you leave then? There are jobs everywhere.

Even in the smallest town in middle on nowhere (say Montana) you can find a job. It might not be a perfect fit for your skills, but you can find one. There are thousands of small towns scattered across the US with some little company that makes something obscure but essential to society. Example: you probably never think about sewage pumps (not the treatment plant, just the pumps by the side of the road) - they are essential to society though and somebody needs to write the software that controls them. Why not you?

Of course moving implys a lot of changes. You can't go to a Broadway show (you live in California so you can't anyway - which is why I use this example), the community musical in the next town it pretty good though and the fact that they are not on the level of Broadway makes them fun in a different way. Or maybe you can find a different activity to fill your life with once you limit yourself to 9-5 plus the 15 minute walk each way to the other side of town to get home.

Of course there is nothing wrong with Montreal that the other poster mentioned. It is a nice city if you decide that a city life is for you. Of course it is in Canada which might be a negative for you, but you can still choose from any of several hundred cities scattered around the country. Nothing wrong with any of them either. All have specific advantages and disadvantages.

Re: Learn to sell

#32
post #28
post #4

The life of an engineer is a life if sacrifice and 7 days a week work for five days pay. Often you never have a partner so you're the most highly taxed people in the country especially in California. While you often work triple time you're rarely if ever paid for overtime it's taken for granted that you're not ever compensated for 3/4 of the hours you work. Nothing can happen without you but sales people get a piece…

Boohoo, you're one of the most highly taxed people... aka you make a lot of money? You know how lucky we are to get to do what we love and get paid heaps for it? Honestly there are plenty of software engineering jobs (in the Bay Area and out) that pay you six figures to work 9-5. Your experience isn't the norm. Go join a big company if you want comfortable. Then your equity will actually be worth something too, one l…

Nobody is "lucky" to be working long hours. No matter how much they love what they're doing.

An engineer making $150k working 60 hour weeks is making $5/hr less than an engineer earning $100k working 36 hour weeks. The latter is literally earning more _for their time_ working half as much for 2/3 the salary.

The hourly rate of an engineer earning $250k for 60 hour weeks is the same as an engineer earning $150k for 36 hour weeks.

The difference of 14 hours a week is 30 1/3 days/year. Some folks are willing to trade an extra month of their time per year from the prime years of their life for money, but not me. It should be a choice, not an expectation.

Maybe your perspective is different because you're a founder, but I get the feeling I wouldn't want to work for your company.

Re: Learn to sell

#33
One of my first jobs out of college was software sales. Really opened my eyes to the absurdity of that industry.

Very wolf of wallstreeet-esque. The tech was mostly repackaged opensource software with a nicer UI and the senior sales guys were doing copious drugs and bringing down like six figure commissions on multi-million dollar contracts. They hired an army of associates to generate leads and then swooped in to grab the commission. The play was to cold call the shit of company, weasel you way into a decision maker's schedule, and basically roll the dice they might buy your software because they needed to check a box - it barely mattered what the thing actually did and beyond a well rehearsed script no one understood even the basics of the technology/problem space. It was also very feast or famine - a few made absurd cash but most lived on a precarious edge where they felt they might be fired at any moment.

Understanding this is how the world actually works was a valuable education. I do feel with the rise of 'big tech' things have improved a bit and there is a renewed interest in approaching business problems with data and something that approximates a pseudo objective science-like process. But barely.

Re: Learn to sell

#34

Does anyone have any book suggestions for an engineer who wants to learn sales / convincing people? Do you recommend doing trial by fire and getting a sales job? I've realized that I am good at the technicals but terrible at selling why people should do what I say.

The Dale Carnegie company runs a sales course (IIRC it's 8 weeks, one night per week) which I found enormously valuable.

Apart from learning skills and heuristics, one thing that was quite eye opening was the range of other students. I remember (this was decades ago) a couple of kids around 20 with a T shirt stand on the beach (avg sale <$20, average sale time a minute), someone who sold home security systems for ADT (consumer sale of a couple of hundred bucks, leads from a lead service and cold calls) and someone who sold chip manufacturing equipment (average order in 10s of millions, sales cycle over two years).

Re: Learn to sell

#35
post #27
post #20

This is really important. I love programming and am somewhat introverted, but being newlywed with a wife who couldn't work (visa), a mortgage, and a commission plan really made me learn to sell. The really good salespeople aren't deceptive, and I luckily learned from them. Also: if you're at a good company the engineers don't scorn the sales people (instead: "you guys bring in the money that pays our salaries") and t…

I've always tried to sit in on a few sales calls at any place I've worked and have encouraged people working for me to do the same. It's valuable to see your products from the Sales team and customer perspective. The surprising thing I've observed is how great sales people spend most of the call listening to problems, not offering solutions.

Ding-ding-ding. That's the secret.

Re: Learn to sell

#36
Just don't be one of the salespeople that promises the client a feature that doesn't exist, then returns to the team after making the sale and says "You have to build this now." F--- that noise.

Re: Learn to sell

#37

Does anyone have any book suggestions for an engineer who wants to learn sales / convincing people? Do you recommend doing trial by fire and getting a sales job? I've realized that I am good at the technicals but terrible at selling why people should do what I say.

Here is the best place to start. Not a book on sales. A book on how to craft a message that will be heard by your audience.

https://www.amazon.com/So-What-Communicate-Matters-Audience/...

Short and sweet.

Re: Learn to sell

#38
If anyone is interested I did a recent interview on CEO Library[0] where I dropped a bunch of book recommendations on selling products, services and yourself.

I personally sell online video training courses for developers so it's something I've been hyper focused on for the last 2 years. During that time about 20,000 people have signed up to at least 1 of my paid courses.

I think becoming slightly better at selling has also made me a much better programmer, because your mindset shifts entirely. It's not just about naming things too. It's easier to see the bigger picture on something. It helps scope the entire project.

[0]: https://www.theceolibrary.com/nick-janetakis-2771.html

Re: Learn to sell

#39
As a sales leader and consultant, I kept being asked to offer weekly personalized sales coaching for technical founders. I launched it a few weeks ago and so far it's been pretty great for both parties.

Being able to sit down on a weekly basis to game plan the sales approach, go over calls, and hold them accountable has been immeasurable.

p.s. if anyone is interested - I'm in the process of launching a "Selling 101" online course for founders to cover the fundamentals of sales (finding leads, cold calling, performing demonstrations, closing deals, etc).

Re: Learn to sell

#40

As an engineer coming into sales I found the thing I love about sales is that it is problem solving. If you can get in the door the main thing is you are solving a problem for your prospective client. That is no different from engineering you are interfacing with people instead of computers. There are some great books on sales and why sales gets a bad rap is most sales people don’t seem to have read those books. I no…

Love to hear which sales books you consider great
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