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Learn to sell

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Re: Learn to sell

#21

Post by shams93 »

shams93 wrote: post #4

The life of an engineer is a life if sacrifice and 7 days a week work for five days pay. Often you never have a partner so you're the most highly taxed people in the country especially in California. While you often work triple time you're rarely if ever paid for overtime it's taken for granted that you're not ever compensated for 3/4 of the hours you work. Nothing can happen without you but sales people get a piece…

It sounds aweful but I'm talking advantage of the relatively awesome access to information we have today to slowly get myself into indie hacking and building my own products for a particular niche I have found. That means even more work but eventually that may pay off with real freedom. Know when you can launch your own product with so little overhead it behooves you to learn to sell even if it means no free time at all until you can launch that could lead to quite a lot more free time in the future.

Re: Learn to sell

#22

Post by selleck »

madamelic wrote: post #8

Does anyone have any book suggestions for an engineer who wants to learn sales / convincing people? Do you recommend doing trial by fire and getting a sales job? I've realized that I am good at the technicals but terrible at selling why people should do what I say.

I was in sales for 10+ years, now am a dev. Best sales book I ever read was New Sales Simplified. Really breaks down the sales process.

Re: Learn to sell

#23

Post by madamelic »

yodon wrote: post #12
madamelic wrote: post #8

Does anyone have any book suggestions for an engineer who wants to learn sales / convincing people? Do you recommend doing trial by fire and getting a sales job? I've realized that I am good at the technicals but terrible at selling why people should do what I say.

First, read Dale Carnegie’s “How to win friends and influence people.” Don’t let the cheesy title turn you off. The book is tremendous and a fun read and has been a literal best seller continuously since it was written more than 50 years ago.

>First, read Dale Carnegie’s “How to win friends and influence people.”

Already done. I am currently reading "7 Habits of Highly Effective People". How to Win Friends majorly influenced me already.

Do you believe the methods explained in How to Win Friends are sufficient? They have absolutely helped already but I am not sure if it is just a matter continuing to apply or if there is another that could help level me up more.

EDIT: Also on the reading list is Purple Cow by Seth Godin. I've heard good things about it and the first ~20 pages were pretty good.

Re: Learn to sell

#24

Post by tagami »

madamelic wrote: post #8

Does anyone have any book suggestions for an engineer who wants to learn sales / convincing people? Do you recommend doing trial by fire and getting a sales job? I've realized that I am good at the technicals but terrible at selling why people should do what I say.

Sales is not "convincing" people. A sale is when the products, goods, or services you represent fill a need. Listening and asking open ended questions help the sales person determine that need.

Re: Learn to sell

#25

Post by ryanwaggoner »

shams93 wrote: post #4

The life of an engineer is a life if sacrifice and 7 days a week work for five days pay. Often you never have a partner so you're the most highly taxed people in the country especially in California. While you often work triple time you're rarely if ever paid for overtime it's taken for granted that you're not ever compensated for 3/4 of the hours you work. Nothing can happen without you but sales people get a piece…

Do not accept this as the status quo.

It sounds like you live in California? If you're a decent software engineer in any major city in California, you are one of the luckiest people who has ever lived. You have your choice of employers paying you six figures to sit at a desk and push buttons 40 hours per week.

If you're overworked and underpaid to the point that what I just said sounds crazy, it sounds like you need a new job, immediately. There are better options out there, don't settle if you're miserable.

Some of the other points you mentioned sound like you might want to speak to a professional therapist. There's no shame in that (I've done it before and will again) and it can really help you work through some issues.

Good luck!

Re: Learn to sell

#26

Post by abhiyerra »

As an engineer coming into sales I found the thing I love about sales is that it is problem solving. If you can get in the door the main thing is you are solving a problem for your prospective client. That is no different from engineering you are interfacing with people instead of computers.

There are some great books on sales and why sales gets a bad rap is most sales people don’t seem to have read those books. I now have a critical eye for sales stuff like you can have for code and just see how bad most sales are done.

Re: Learn to sell

#27

Post by hardtke »

gumby wrote: post #20

This is really important. I love programming and am somewhat introverted, but being newlywed with a wife who couldn't work (visa), a mortgage, and a commission plan really made me learn to sell. The really good salespeople aren't deceptive, and I luckily learned from them. Also: if you're at a good company the engineers don't scorn the sales people (instead: "you guys bring in the money that pays our salaries") and t…

I've always tried to sit in on a few sales calls at any place I've worked and have encouraged people working for me to do the same. It's valuable to see your products from the Sales team and customer perspective. The surprising thing I've observed is how great sales people spend most of the call listening to problems, not offering solutions.

Re: Learn to sell

#28

Post by a13n »

shams93 wrote: post #4

The life of an engineer is a life if sacrifice and 7 days a week work for five days pay. Often you never have a partner so you're the most highly taxed people in the country especially in California. While you often work triple time you're rarely if ever paid for overtime it's taken for granted that you're not ever compensated for 3/4 of the hours you work. Nothing can happen without you but sales people get a piece…

Boohoo, you're one of the most highly taxed people... aka you make a lot of money? You know how lucky we are to get to do what we love and get paid heaps for it?

Honestly there are plenty of software engineering jobs (in the Bay Area and out) that pay you six figures to work 9-5. Your experience isn't the norm. Go join a big company if you want comfortable. Then your equity will actually be worth something too, one less thing for you to complain about.

Re: Learn to sell

#29

Post by brnd4n »

madamelic wrote: post #8

Does anyone have any book suggestions for an engineer who wants to learn sales / convincing people? Do you recommend doing trial by fire and getting a sales job? I've realized that I am good at the technicals but terrible at selling why people should do what I say.

Listen to the Psychology of Selling by Brian Tracy. Best sales training I've material I've seen. There's a book too but skip that and get the CD set.

Re: Learn to sell

#30

Post by yodon »

madamelic wrote: post #23
yodon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, read Dale Carnegie’s “How to win friends and influence people.” Don’t let the cheesy title turn you off. The book is tremendous and a fun read and has been a literal best seller continuously since it was written more than 50 years ago.

>First, read Dale Carnegie’s “How to win friends and influence people.” Already done. I am currently reading "7 Habits of Highly Effective People". How to Win Friends majorly influenced me already. Do you believe the methods explained in How to Win Friends are sufficient? They have absolutely helped already but I am not sure if it is just a matter continuing to apply or if there is another that could help level me up…

After starting with Dale Carnegie’s book I’d move to something more about the storytelling aspects so you can construct your pitches well in addition to interacting well.

I don’t have a “great” book to recommend there, but an example that pops to mind might be Say it in six[0]. This sort of book tends to be more formulaic, less universal, and every book advocates a completely different formula so you need to find the approach and style that works for you. That said, understanding that a pitch is a structured story and thinking about how to structure them is incredibly valuable.

Simon Sinek’s Ted talk[1] is also really fun and well worth watching (and worth deconstructing how he makes his pitch about how to make pitches), but it’s more about high level consumer brand design than the inside the company project pitching like I think you’re asking about.

[0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1629833.Say_It_in_Six

[1] https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_insp...

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