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Why Are Data Science Leaders Running for the Exit?

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Re: Why Are Data Science Leaders Running for the Exit?

#21

Post by sidlls »

mykull wrote: post #11

The author is way off base in saying software engineering is about assembly rather than discovery. That's only true of the lowest-skill non-innovating software shops, and even then, developers are constantly having to discover how to use the new tool of the month. On an unrelated note I don't really buy into the idea of data science as a distinct thing from computer science.

> The author is way off base in saying software engineering is about assembly rather than discovery.

Depends. The interview process that is the fad these days selects for assembly workers. Organizations using that process are doing so to find people who aren't curious about broadening their knowledge and experience, but to find people highly competent at repeatedly doing their CS curriculum over and over.

> On an unrelated note I don't really buy into the idea of data science as a distinct thing from computer science

How is it not distinct? Data science is closer to a physical engineering discipline than an applied math one. The tools of the trade might be enhanced by application of CS, but the two are quite distinct.

Re: Why Are Data Science Leaders Running for the Exit?

#22

Post by autokad »

ataturk wrote: post #12

It was all hype. All of it. I enjoyed learning about data science, but in the end, there were no jobs I could actually apply for and realistically get. I also don't think they were providing the big wins for the company that would justify what they were getting paid. Again, all hype.

same here. i work great in teams, masters in computer science, do really well in kaggle competitions, I understand when to use the algorithms, how they work, etc.

but in the very few ds interviews I had, I was tanked as soon I got asked questions like: whats the formula for a T test. I know what the test is, and when its not appropriate to apply it, but I don't memorize those kinds of formulas. the field is just too big to do that

Re: Why Are Data Science Leaders Running for the Exit?

#23

Post by Amygaz »

reureu wrote: post #15

This is an article making baseless generalizations that all data science is failing in Silicon Valley, and that the true need of a company is to hire a "data strategist." Unsurprisingly, the article is written by a self-proclaimed data strategist. This blog post would be more compelling if there were citations or even general context backing up the authors pretty wild claims ("the vast majority (we are talking 80-90%…

That was also my impression. It's kind of ironic that a Data Science/Strategist writing would be so heavily opinionated and have so little in term of data.

Re: Why Are Data Science Leaders Running for the Exit?

#24

Post by crescentfresh »

autokad wrote: post #22
ataturk wrote: post #12

It was all hype. All of it. I enjoyed learning about data science, but in the end, there were no jobs I could actually apply for and realistically get. I also don't think they were providing the big wins for the company that would justify what they were getting paid. Again, all hype.

same here. i work great in teams, masters in computer science, do really well in kaggle competitions, I understand when to use the algorithms, how they work, etc. but in the very few ds interviews I had, I was tanked as soon I got asked questions like: whats the formula for a T test. I know what the test is, and when its not appropriate to apply it, but I don't memorize those kinds of formulas. the field is just too…

Thanks for sharing your experience!

Were you making it past the initial stage/screen interviews where every question is a buzz-word test? Were you ever interviewed by people who you'd actually work with and know what their team needs? What geographical area do you reside roughly, if I may ask?

Re: Why Are Data Science Leaders Running for the Exit?

#25

Post by Asdfbla »

shas3 wrote: post #18
junkscience2017 wrote: post #10

probably some realization that 99% of their actual job is ORDER BY, GROUP BY, SUM...not a bunch of cool math scrawled on a whiteboard I tried warning people off of this field given that they would be doing sql query monkey work and drawing simple line charts...most definitely not an upgrade from software development like it was sold as

They’re probably in the wrong company. Are you suggesting there are isn’t an explosion of jobs and applications requiring advance math and machine learning or statistical inference? If so you are off the mark.

You're right of course, but still there is a point: For 1 'intellectually' interesting data science job created there's probably 10 that have more to do with data massaging and all the relatively boring logistical stuff that come with data science.

Doesn't invalidate your point, but the majority of jobs under the very broad 'data science' label just aren't super interesting after all. Guess you just have to be careful to examine exactly what a specific 'data science' position entails.

Re: Why Are Data Science Leaders Running for the Exit?

#26

Post by autokad »

crescentfresh wrote: post #24
autokad wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

same here. i work great in teams, masters in computer science, do really well in kaggle competitions, I understand when to use the algorithms, how they work, etc. but in the very few ds interviews I had, I was tanked as soon I got asked questions like: whats the formula for a T test. I know what the test is, and when its not appropriate to apply it, but I don't memorize those kinds of formulas. the field is just too…

Thanks for sharing your experience! Were you making it past the initial stage/screen interviews where every question is a buzz-word test? Were you ever interviewed by people who you'd actually work with and know what their team needs? What geographical area do you reside roughly, if I may ask?

it was initial screenings, she was a data scientist (but really a statistician). I passed the first two screenings (code interview, database / sql interview). every question was about statistics, and probability.

This position was in NYC.

Re: Why Are Data Science Leaders Running for the Exit?

#27

Post by dahart »

There's some irony in an article about data science using only anecdote and emotion to make it's argument. :P

PhD's are notoriously (and understandably) finicky about doing non-research work when the job is sold as research, that's why you have to be sure you really need them. That issue has been around since long before data science in SaaS companies was a thing, it's been around since before the internet was a thing.

Assuming that there really is an exodus problem, PhDs being unprepared to lead teams and do non-data-science work is one theory that seems reasonable, but it definitely isn't covering all possibilities.

Having been in a couple of companies hiring data scientists recently, I personally think the big problem is expectation for data science in general, more than who's been hired to do the job. The couple of companies I've worked with, anecdotally, seem to expect "data science" to uncover huge missing profits, expose gaping inefficiencies, and reveal new revenue streams the business people didn't see. And when there turns out to be only minor ways to streamline things, the team of data scientists need something else to do.

Re: Why Are Data Science Leaders Running for the Exit?

#28

Post by js8 »

sidlls wrote: post #21
mykull wrote: post #11

The author is way off base in saying software engineering is about assembly rather than discovery. That's only true of the lowest-skill non-innovating software shops, and even then, developers are constantly having to discover how to use the new tool of the month. On an unrelated note I don't really buy into the idea of data science as a distinct thing from computer science.

> The author is way off base in saying software engineering is about assembly rather than discovery. Depends. The interview process that is the fad these days selects for assembly workers. Organizations using that process are doing so to find people who aren't curious about broadening their knowledge and experience, but to find people highly competent at repeatedly doing their CS curriculum over and over. > On an unr…

> Organizations using that process are doing so to find people who aren't curious about broadening their knowledge and experience, but to find people highly competent at repeatedly doing their CS curriculum over and over.

And why are they doing this? Why don't they just buy an existing solution from another vendor, why build your own solution?

Re: Why Are Data Science Leaders Running for the Exit?

#29

Post by junkscience2017 »

__sharp wrote: post #19
junkscience2017 wrote: post #10

probably some realization that 99% of their actual job is ORDER BY, GROUP BY, SUM...not a bunch of cool math scrawled on a whiteboard I tried warning people off of this field given that they would be doing sql query monkey work and drawing simple line charts...most definitely not an upgrade from software development like it was sold as

Totally depends on what problem your trying to solve, what tools your employer have setup, and what data science you know how to do. The field is still not very mature, but as the tools get easier to use and companies understand how they can solve problems using machine learning and data science, and data pipelines are thought of at the beginning of projects, it will be a lot easier to apply more sophisticated techni…

as the tools become more sophisticated, the more rote the work will be

if a cloud vendor deploys a tool that derives some canned results very quickly at the push of a button, business leaders will prefer those to magic deep queries that take a weekend to run

Re: Why Are Data Science Leaders Running for the Exit?

#30

Post by quickben »

shas3 wrote: post #18
junkscience2017 wrote: post #10

probably some realization that 99% of their actual job is ORDER BY, GROUP BY, SUM...not a bunch of cool math scrawled on a whiteboard I tried warning people off of this field given that they would be doing sql query monkey work and drawing simple line charts...most definitely not an upgrade from software development like it was sold as

They’re probably in the wrong company. Are you suggesting there are isn’t an explosion of jobs and applications requiring advance math and machine learning or statistical inference? If so you are off the mark.

Depends how you look at it.

Any decent Comp. Sci. University will have enough math and statistics.

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