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Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#41

Post by 0xfeba »

skadamou wrote: post #10

The whole business of red light cameras is pretty dubious to begin with. It seems more like a tool local municipalities use to tax through traffic rather than a means of protecting public safety. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/08/13/211723717...

Yes. And from my former state:

http://abc7ny.com/traffic/new-jersey-drivers-get-huge-christ...

> Since then, a federal lawsuit settlement awarded partial refunds to nearly 500,000 violators, and this year a computer glitch voided more than 10,000 violation notices.

http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2015/01/newark_netted_over...

> While the cameras in Newark have been turned off, Redflex continues to face a series of legal battles.

> The company’s former CEO was indicted in August on federal corruption charges, alleging she bribed a retired Chicago official in exchange for assistance with the company’s red light camera contracts in that city.

> In a federal lawsuit, a fired company executive has claimed Redflex provided lavish gifts and bribes to government officials in 13 states, including New Jersey, to secure new contracts.

http://blog.nj.com/njv_editorial_page/2009/09/meadowlands_tr...

> With the research conflicting, Fairfax County, Va., sought other ways to reduce red-light violations and related crashes. It found that lengthening an amber light by 1.5 seconds cut red-light violations by 96 percent - a greater reduction than red-light cameras produce. But that's a problem if what you're looking for is ticket revenue.

And I could not find it -- but I clearly remember a Newark/Trenton mayor accidentally saying "We really need the money" when trying to speak for re-instating the cameras.

And then there's the pesky Constitution, which municipalities get around by making the violations civil instead of criminal. Less burden of proof.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#42

Post by Broken_Hippo »

tialaramex wrote: post #33
sandermvanvliet wrote: post #22

Out of curiosity (and not really related to the article) but I’m kind of surprised to hear there is a formula for calculating how long(?) yellow lights are on and that it relates to a red light camera. AFAIK those cameras are hooked into the control system and only activate when the light is red, which seems like a pretty binary decision. Can someone shed some light on this?

The yellow light provides a period when drivers know the light is going to go red soon, all else being equal this light should be set to stay on for just long enough for drivers in properly maintained cars, who drive at legal speeds, to see it and all either come to a stop or pass the intersection before the light turns red. Typically formulas care about the allowed speed of cars, the expected braking capability of a…

I came to say basically the same thing - only your reply is much better worded and detailed than mine would have been.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#43

Post by xigency »

I'm interested in this because I know PE exams exist and there are licensing bodies for engineers. But what I've heard from most people is that they are a waste of time and money for someone holding an engineering degree unless you are the person who rubber stamps things at the end.

Does someone who knows more about professional engineering know if this law in Oregon is uncommon?

Beyond a free speech argument, it seems like the law is a bit flawed considering other related fields like science, math, and software may not have licensing.

Also, it goes as far as saying someone can't put "engineer" on their resume with solely a degree. Seems very far off the norm.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#45

Post by kstrauser »

exabrial wrote: post #37

Hey guys, can we correct the title? It should be "Oregon punished man for Engineer claim, after criticizing their red-light cameras. He fought and won". The current title is very misleading.

I think it's accurate. It was clearly retribution for criticizing their cameras, and he was legitimately an engineer.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#46

Post by xigency »

mikepurvis wrote: post #24
rgbrenner wrote: post #2

That's just insulting... the state says they acted unconstitutionally.. so they offered him $500 -- which is just a refund of the fine he already paid -- and asked the court to dismiss the case. After he had to pay 4 years of lawyers fees, take them to court, etc. It's just a big FU, and I have no doubt they won't change a thing if they successfully get the court to dismiss it. If the court allows this, then the stat…

He's probably just done with the whole thing at this point, but I suppose he'd have to counter-sue to recover the money? You'd think it would be an easy case— he was unfairly attacked and incurred costs as a result, therefore the entity doing the attacking needs to pony up.

The suit isn't about money. It's about having the law removed as being unconstitutional.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#47

Post by rayiner »

bob_theslob646 wrote: post #27
zitterbewegung wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best tool in any court case is time.

Seriously, this. It is such bs, since most lawyers are incentivized to take as much time as necessary since they work on an hourly basis.

You can’t change the underlying economics of a market by changing your billing model. All the billing model does is change the risk allocation between the parties. Court cases take a long time because each judge handles hundreds of cases (and civil cases take a back seat to criminal cases). Briefing on a motion, for example, might be done over a few weeks. Then the parties just sit and wait possibly for months for a decision. Trial calanders are booked years in advance.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#48

Post by ekianjo »

kayfox wrote: post #5

I can see how the State of Oregon would be annoyed that an unlicensed environmental engineer would be touting his engineering credentials when arguing with licensed civil engineers, especially since the State of Oregon licenses engineers. Engineering is a field where if you mess up, people may die, so just as we license doctors, we license engineers.

So using one's brain requires an engineering degree now?

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#49

Post by grasshopperpurp »

voxl wrote: post #34
mulle_nat wrote: post #6

The two biggest dangers in life: scorned women and inconvenienced bureaucracies.

Why are scorned men not as big of a danger as a scorned women? A scorned man might kill you, might go on a killing spree, might shoot up a school (elementary or college).

Exactly.

>At Least A Third Of All Women Murdered In The U.S. Are Killed By Male Partners

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/09/men-killing-women-...

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#50

Post by kstrauser »

kayfox wrote: post #5

I can see how the State of Oregon would be annoyed that an unlicensed environmental engineer would be touting his engineering credentials when arguing with licensed civil engineers, especially since the State of Oregon licenses engineers. Engineering is a field where if you mess up, people may die, so just as we license doctors, we license engineers.

He is licensed - just not in Oregon. If I were a PE in California on vacation in Nevada, I'd still be an engineer even if I weren't licensed to practice there.
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