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How Australian Tech Companies Can Think About Silicon Valley

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Re: How Australian Tech Companies Can Think About Silicon Valley

#31

Post by sloxy »

oldandtired wrote: post #23
jlangenauer wrote: post #13

One of the strange things about Australia's startup scene over the last decade or so is the sheer number of what I like to call "meta-entrepreneurs" - people who help other people become entrepreneurs, and present themselves as experts on technology, business, Silicon Valley etc, but have declined to actually do the hard work of setting up a business, let alone growing it to success. So when Australians give advice a…

I find your comments about technical competency of Australians being less than elsewhere interesting. My own experience over the decades is the opposite. I have had to deal professionally with various fly-in gurus (from the US and Europe) and they have had little success in understanding how we implemented the projects we were involved in. what was more ridiculous was the major discrepancy in pay. If US or European,…

> they have had little success in understanding how we implemented the projects we were involved in

I don't think I've ever had trouble helping people to grok the implementation/architecture/whatever of any system I've been involved in.

Re: How Australian Tech Companies Can Think About Silicon Valley

#32

Post by nopassrecover »

brad0 wrote: post #20
nopassrecover wrote: post #15

The liveability of places like Adelaide (and even Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, and Perth) is such an undersold secret. Personally I'm so torn between wanting to tell everyone how good we have it and wanting to keep it to ourselves. Melbourne, Adelaide, and Perth are all in the top 10 cities to live in the world. Taking Adelaide for example (1.2 million people), we can live within 10-15 minutes of the CBD in a roomy t…

I have to disagree with the high-paying work statement. I moved from Melbourne to the USA because I hit a salary ceiling. Just over 100k AUD is not that much compared to west coast salaries.

Depends on your skills of course, but most dev jobs on seek / I run into and hire for are paying quite a bit more than that, particularly contract. When the AUD was stronger than USD this was an even more compelling argument.

However I acknowledge the opportunities of equity returns are far higher in the states.

Re: How Australian Tech Companies Can Think About Silicon Valley

#33

Post by nopassrecover »

ianhowson wrote: post #21
nopassrecover wrote: post #15

The liveability of places like Adelaide (and even Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, and Perth) is such an undersold secret. Personally I'm so torn between wanting to tell everyone how good we have it and wanting to keep it to ourselves. Melbourne, Adelaide, and Perth are all in the top 10 cities to live in the world. Taking Adelaide for example (1.2 million people), we can live within 10-15 minutes of the CBD in a roomy t…

I want to drink your kool-aid. I feel like they are highly livable if you do not need to work for a living . Otherwise: - Adelaide: It's cheap but there are no jobs. - Brisbane: It's cheap(ish) but there are no(t many) jobs. - Perth: It's expensive but there are no jobs. - Sydney: You can't afford it. A one-hour commute is starting to look appealing. - Melbourne: Can't complain. They are lovely cities to visit as a t…

I can agree there are more opportunities elsewhere, but ive never met a developer or similar in Aus struggling to do well, and have generally found US devs shocked by our salaries and living costs.

On the other hand, if you want career advancement there's something pretty cool to the US idea of "have managed 15 people after 2 years experience" which just doesn't happen here in Aus.

Re: How Australian Tech Companies Can Think About Silicon Valley

#34

Post by nopassrecover »

jacques_chester wrote: post #28
nopassrecover wrote: post #15

The liveability of places like Adelaide (and even Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, and Perth) is such an undersold secret. Personally I'm so torn between wanting to tell everyone how good we have it and wanting to keep it to ourselves. Melbourne, Adelaide, and Perth are all in the top 10 cities to live in the world. Taking Adelaide for example (1.2 million people), we can live within 10-15 minutes of the CBD in a roomy t…

They may be liveable, but the work on offer is really nothing like the US market. I tell folk that the NYC technology scene is larger than every Australian technology scene combined. The Bay Area's tech scene is large than every Australian scene multiplied . It is a stark difference. In Darwin, I could get a job but not, as my father said, a career. In Perth I could get a career, but it would be in moving from backof…

Great analogy and completely agree that we couldn't compete on overall opportunities. Would still argue we have a pretty unbeatable lifestyle though, which it sounds like you're pretty familiar with :-)

As far as recruiters, I can't recall a week here without at least one contact, but it sounds like it's even busier in NYC!

Re: How Australian Tech Companies Can Think About Silicon Valley

#35

Post by ianhowson »

nopassrecover wrote: post #32
brad0 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to disagree with the high-paying work statement. I moved from Melbourne to the USA because I hit a salary ceiling. Just over 100k AUD is not that much compared to west coast salaries.

Depends on your skills of course, but most dev jobs on seek / I run into and hire for are paying quite a bit more than that, particularly contract. When the AUD was stronger than USD this was an even more compelling argument. However I acknowledge the opportunities of equity returns are far higher in the states.

A quick Glassdoor search places 'senior software engineer' in Melbourne at 101k:

    https://www.glassdoor.com.au/Salaries/melbourne-senior-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,9_IM965_KO10,34.htm
I agree with the parent commenter. I reached a salary cap around 5 years out of university and wasn't able to break it within Australia.

Re: How Australian Tech Companies Can Think About Silicon Valley

#36

Post by ianhowson »

nopassrecover wrote: post #33
ianhowson wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to drink your kool-aid. I feel like they are highly livable if you do not need to work for a living . Otherwise: - Adelaide: It's cheap but there are no jobs. - Brisbane: It's cheap(ish) but there are no(t many) jobs. - Perth: It's expensive but there are no jobs. - Sydney: You can't afford it. A one-hour commute is starting to look appealing. - Melbourne: Can't complain. They are lovely cities to visit as a t…

I can agree there are more opportunities elsewhere, but ive never met a developer or similar in Aus struggling to do well, and have generally found US devs shocked by our salaries and living costs. On the other hand, if you want career advancement there's something pretty cool to the US idea of "have managed 15 people after 2 years experience" which just doesn't happen here in Aus.

As soon as we had a child, we went from "doing OK on two professional salaries" to "losing money even with a modest lifestyle."

Outside Aus, we only need one income to support the family. That's a pretty amazing quality of life improvement.

Re: How Australian Tech Companies Can Think About Silicon Valley

#37

Post by peatmoss »

danieltillett wrote: post #29
jacques_chester wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the real strength of Australians is our cheerful cynicism and laconic humour; these allow for honest appraisal. We are optimistic ("she'll be right"), but it is a different species from American optimism ("I'm going to build the impossible"). I work in NYC and my office has, at any time, between 5 and 10 Australians working there, out of ~100. It is a tremendous comfort to have that common sense of humour at…

Australians tend to lack confidence on their own in the greater world, but when put together as a team they think they can beat everyone (and often do). One thing we don't make is good managers of Americans - cynicism and laconic humour does not come across well with American employees.

I’d work for an Aussie, but my auxiliary national affiliation in New Zealand would mandate I give them some good natured grief :-)

I’d say it takes all kinds. I work with one Aussie who is a great manager, and she enjoys good rapport with everyone above and below as far as I can tell.

Kiwis and Aussies that I’ve known have had a tendency to project a feeling place inferiority which I think is rubbish. Everyone has imposter syndrome, but being from Aussie or NZ is no reason to feel inferior. Stand tall!

Re: How Australian Tech Companies Can Think About Silicon Valley

#38

Post by kondro »

brad0 wrote: post #20
nopassrecover wrote: post #15

The liveability of places like Adelaide (and even Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, and Perth) is such an undersold secret. Personally I'm so torn between wanting to tell everyone how good we have it and wanting to keep it to ourselves. Melbourne, Adelaide, and Perth are all in the top 10 cities to live in the world. Taking Adelaide for example (1.2 million people), we can live within 10-15 minutes of the CBD in a roomy t…

I have to disagree with the high-paying work statement. I moved from Melbourne to the USA because I hit a salary ceiling. Just over 100k AUD is not that much compared to west coast salaries.

Yeah, mid-to-senior dev jobs in Melbourne and Sydney are going for $150k+ right now.

Re: How Australian Tech Companies Can Think About Silicon Valley

#39

Post by hyperpallium »

stephenr wrote: post #8
hyperpallium wrote: post #3

> Build local, sell global. This is the ideal. Hire the local talent (keeps government people happy) but sell into the big market. Yes. But if you're selling components (pretty rare TBH, most sell a service provided via a web page, or maybe a desktop or mobile app), you have to pay "royalty" tax to the IRS. Only about 5% IIRC under the us-aust tax treaty, and you're not double-taxed by the ATO - but it's paperwork, c…

Can you provide some reference, or even the law/statute name that you're referring to here?

Was a few years ago, I'd have to google it myself.

google: US australia tax treaty; search: "royalty" within it (has a particular meaning in the act). The term "component" is not actually used, IIRC. When the IRS audited a US firm I know, they had to sort it out with their non-US component suppliers.

I'm not at all sure, but maybe "w8-ben" is the relevant form (though it serves several purposes). Whatever the form is, I noted that Atlassian had a pdf of it on their site, and avoided all the complexity because their products were used directly by users (i.e. aren't components).

HTH!

Re: How Australian Tech Companies Can Think About Silicon Valley

#40

Post by nailer »

ianhowson wrote: post #21
nopassrecover wrote: post #15

The liveability of places like Adelaide (and even Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, and Perth) is such an undersold secret. Personally I'm so torn between wanting to tell everyone how good we have it and wanting to keep it to ourselves. Melbourne, Adelaide, and Perth are all in the top 10 cities to live in the world. Taking Adelaide for example (1.2 million people), we can live within 10-15 minutes of the CBD in a roomy t…

I want to drink your kool-aid. I feel like they are highly livable if you do not need to work for a living . Otherwise: - Adelaide: It's cheap but there are no jobs. - Brisbane: It's cheap(ish) but there are no(t many) jobs. - Perth: It's expensive but there are no jobs. - Sydney: You can't afford it. A one-hour commute is starting to look appealing. - Melbourne: Can't complain. They are lovely cities to visit as a t…

You can afford Melbourne? I grew up there but there's no chance of buying a place now.
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