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Why You Need a Degree to Work for BigCo (2013)

braythwayt.com

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Re: Why You Need a Degree to Work for BigCo (2013)

#11

Post by patientplatypus »

Lame.

What happens when you're over thirty and want to marry and have kids? Are you then not cool because you need/want to have a stable home? Are you not enough of a hacker, not 1337 enough, because you want to work for a company that might be around in 3 months?

It never ceases to amaze me how many people, who consider themselves very smart no less, by default consider anyone even five to ten years older than them complete fools for making choices that would be irrational to a 20 year old. Got news for you, you'll grow up one day, if you're lucky.

Re: Why You Need a Degree to Work for BigCo (2013)

#12

Post by plafl »

I think the reason big companies will ask more often for a degree is that they are more risk averse. More exactly the people working there are more risk averse and hiring someone without a degree would require some explanation since it's not common practice. Also people sometimes need to hire for roles they don't know much about and having a degree provides some kind of assurance about the candidate's knowledge. It's true you can be better at doing your work without a degree but the article makes it sound like it's a bonus, which is not, at least to my eyes. BigCo doesn't care that you are going to stay there for years, most probably it would prefer higher rotation rates.

Re: Why You Need a Degree to Work for BigCo (2013)

#13

Post by brailsafe »

imbeel wrote: post #7

I've worked for BigCo and startups, and don't have a degree. It has never been an issue, anywhere I've worked, ever. I've asked. They don't care. The only time it would matter is if it was a legal requirement for professional engineering (anything involving safety). Yes, BigCo wants to hire middle of the spectrum folks who live in the suburbs and do a decent job for a fair wage. But they also want to (and do) hire ha…

It can be tricky to work at BigCo as a hacker among middle spectrum folks. They want people to slot right in.

Re: Why You Need a Degree to Work for BigCo (2013)

#14

Post by brailsafe »

patientplatypus wrote: post #11

Lame. What happens when you're over thirty and want to marry and have kids? Are you then not cool because you need/want to have a stable home? Are you not enough of a hacker, not 1337 enough, because you want to work for a company that might be around in 3 months? It never ceases to amaze me how many people, who consider themselves very smart no less, by default consider anyone even five to ten years older than them…

What happens is that your lifestyle has changed to be more in line with what BigCo is looking for. If the scale tips more towards family life maybe you care less about excitement and variety in your work life. All of that is fine. If your life consists entirely of taking care of your family and working a stable job, then what part of you remains a hacker? On the other hand, if you're doing all that while working with your kids on building an electron microscope, then that's what makes you a hacker.

I'd add that those would apply to a young person as well who simply works a stable job and doesn't do anything to explore their curiosity in technology.

Re: Why You Need a Degree to Work for BigCo (2013)

#15

Post by braythwayt »

patientplatypus wrote: post #11

Lame. What happens when you're over thirty and want to marry and have kids? Are you then not cool because you need/want to have a stable home? Are you not enough of a hacker, not 1337 enough, because you want to work for a company that might be around in 3 months? It never ceases to amaze me how many people, who consider themselves very smart no less, by default consider anyone even five to ten years older than them…

The author, who speaks of himself in the third person, was a parent and in his forties when he wrote that.

Perhaps the article is not a comment on whether making conservative life choices is or isn't cool. Perhaps the article is not a comment on whether a degree in CS does or doesn't provide personal edification or improves your programming.

Perhaps the article is nothing more than what it claims to be: A comment on why a certain type of conservative company requires a degree, and their opinion of people who embrace or eschew conservative life choices.

Re: Why You Need a Degree to Work for BigCo (2013)

#16

Post by Retric »

braythwayt wrote: post #15
patientplatypus wrote: post #11

Lame. What happens when you're over thirty and want to marry and have kids? Are you then not cool because you need/want to have a stable home? Are you not enough of a hacker, not 1337 enough, because you want to work for a company that might be around in 3 months? It never ceases to amaze me how many people, who consider themselves very smart no less, by default consider anyone even five to ten years older than them…

The author, who speaks of himself in the third person, was a parent and in his forties when he wrote that. Perhaps the article is not a comment on whether making conservative life choices is or isn't cool. Perhaps the article is not a comment on whether a degree in CS does or doesn't provide personal edification or improves your programming. Perhaps the article is nothing more than what it claims to be: A comment on…

Large companies employ many people without degrees, it's really front line managers that handle those requirements. Further, while self taught programmers are often very good they tend to be weaker at working with other developers on large scale projects. So, many managers have examples of both and still prefer people with degrees for most projects.

Re: Why You Need a Degree to Work for BigCo (2013)

#17

Post by Delmania »

Well, I sometimes wonder about this. I have a Master's Degree in Computer Science from RIT, and I despise working at BigCos. I spent a decade doing "cog development" and I learned I hated it. It was boring, stifling, draining, and unfulfilling. Perhaps the 2 most exciting times in my career were when I was working for 2 startups, when we were building news systems, putting in our own processes, and solving interesting problems.

I will admit I could do more on the side in terms of blogging, working on open source projects, and learning new skills, but I do have a family I need to raise and house to repair and improve. It's something I am working on.

Re: Why You Need a Degree to Work for BigCo (2013)

#18

Post by Delmania »

brailsafe wrote: post #13
imbeel wrote: post #7

I've worked for BigCo and startups, and don't have a degree. It has never been an issue, anywhere I've worked, ever. I've asked. They don't care. The only time it would matter is if it was a legal requirement for professional engineering (anything involving safety). Yes, BigCo wants to hire middle of the spectrum folks who live in the suburbs and do a decent job for a fair wage. But they also want to (and do) hire ha…

It can be tricky to work at BigCo as a hacker among middle spectrum folks. They want people to slot right in.

I usually advise hackers to work in a BigCo at least once. I think it's really important from the perspective of learning how to manage your manager an how to interact with people who aren't as excited by technology as you are.

Re: Why You Need a Degree to Work for BigCo (2013)

#19

Post by muxator »

brailsafe wrote: post #13
imbeel wrote: post #7

I've worked for BigCo and startups, and don't have a degree. It has never been an issue, anywhere I've worked, ever. I've asked. They don't care. The only time it would matter is if it was a legal requirement for professional engineering (anything involving safety). Yes, BigCo wants to hire middle of the spectrum folks who live in the suburbs and do a decent job for a fair wage. But they also want to (and do) hire ha…

It can be tricky to work at BigCo as a hacker among middle spectrum folks. They want people to slot right in.

+1 to this. A lot of impedance mismatch between a hacker and a middle spectrum folk. Moreover, conservative companies will promote this middle spectrum people to management positions, reinforcing the tech-adverse culture.

Re: Why You Need a Degree to Work for BigCo (2013)

#20

Post by bootsz »

This reminds me a lot of a book I read a while ago called "Disciplined Minds" by Jeff Schmidt. It focuses on the sociological aspects of hiring practices & performance evaluation measures in the knowledge economy. It's a rather obscure book but I found it fascinating.

Basically, one of the central conclusions is that many of the metrics by which knowledge workers are evaluated are really less about measuring actual technical competence or domain knowledge and much more about detecting the propensity for conformity and obedience.

Maybe that's not too surprising for some, but what's even more interesting is that this can often be the case without the evaluators/managers/people in power even being aware of it. In many cases they genuinely believe they are evaluating for domain mastery / technical skill, but are fooled by the hidden signal that correlates to what they see as "desirable" outcomes.

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