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The Big Vitamin D Mistake

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#401

Post by [deleted] »

borplk wrote: post #157
simias wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems dishonest to hide content that may be relevant to the discussion, especially after teasing it that way. Maybe if it warrants mentioning in your original comment it also warrants explaining why you think it's irrelevant?

There's no dishonesty. They are easily found for anyone interested. As I said the horse been has beaten to death so I didn't want to do what I was discouraging others from doing. They are mostly uneducated, lazy, decade-old, hand-wavy, and baseless personal attacks on him. The man has been a geek, engineer, programmer and a techie for multiple decades. He has been on record for the past 12-13 years audio, video and t…

[deleted]

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#402

Post by khedoros1 »

coldtea wrote: post #316
lostlogin wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the time it takes to get a burn is 10 minutes or less, you might as well treat it as exposure = burn.

That's when sunbathing on Venus. Or if you're a ginger or similar. On good old Earth, one can sit in the sun for hours on end without a burn. In fact people frequently do, like all the time.

With some SPF30 sunscreen, or sufficiently dark skin, sure. I'm not especially pale, but I'll start burning in under an hour of direct sunlight. "Hours on end" would be a recipe for painfulness.

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#403

Post by khedoros1 »

Spooky23 wrote: post #207
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair skin is a lot better than skin cancer!

People who work outside don’t get skin cancer. People who cook themselves for fun do. If they did, we would know, because workers compensation would be paying for it.

Because surely all of those farm hands will be able to prove that it was their outdoors work that caused the cancer 30 years later! And surely the insurance will pay to right those wrongs!

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#404

Post by sushid »

avip wrote: post #128
Styn wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Word of advice: don't take vitamins ADEK without advice from a physician for extended periods or in high doses. These are fat soluble so you can have too much of them.

This should be reiterated: Please consult a professional before drastically altering the chemical composition of your ephemeral body. I know it sounds downright crazy, but it's possible that someone who's studied medicine and practiced it for years, actually knows better than random anonymous forum users.

Dermatologists still prescribe antibiotics for acne. For some specializations, it's all about the maintaining the status quo.

Truth be told, doctors still don't know much about IBS and/or Crohn's. Or even conditions like rosacea and/or dermatitis. Mark my words, better gut flora/microbiome will be the cure for these conditions in the near future and doctors will contest this up until the evidence is too loud to ignore.

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#405

Post by abecedarius »

dijit wrote: post #368
lostlogin wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the burn time is less than 10 minutes, you need to cover them up or have them play in the shade. The UV index for tomorrow is just shy of 14 and we are a month or two from the time of year when it’s highest, you would need medical treatment for a child who played in that and was uncovered all day. Related: I found the old measure (burn time) much easier to use than the new UV index, and while having it standard…

That UV index stuff is no joke. My girlfriend spent an hour "sunbathing" in the canary islands and came back with the most incredible sunburn I've ever seen. I'm mega paranoid (SPF 50 all the time in hot countries) and didn't notice anything damaging but she had to be covered in aloe vera creams to numb the pain.. it affected her sleep, it must have been unbearable. Not sure what the health qualms are with lack of Vi…

Ouch! I've gotten a few bad sunburns in Los Angeles, but that sounds like something else.

My sunbathing policy is to go without sunscreen but only for 20-30 minutes daily around noon.

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#406

Post by abecedarius »

netcraft wrote: post #321
Malic wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup - it's a fat soluble vitamin - this is a very good point to bring up. I made the "taking it with my low fat meal of the day" (breakfast) and made a change to correct that.

I've been told I should be taking it in the morning though, because it can affect sleep if you take it in the evening - anyone know differently?

Gwern ran a self-experiment finding that it did affect his sleep: https://www.gwern.net/zeo/Vitamin-D

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#407

Post by Matrixik »

seasonalgrit wrote: post #399
ConfucianNardin wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Examine.com does NOT sell vitamins/supplements. They collect and analyze available research, and the result of that process is their product (in the form of guides etc).

Thanks for noting this. Their web site design (as well as the use of a dotcom domain) gives a misleading impression

And Chris Masterjohn, PhD is also working with them, example http://v6.examinecdn.com/erd/chrismasterjohn2.pdf

Personally I don't know better source with information about different supplements than examine.com, more how they are working here: https://examine.com/about/ If you know better source point it to me, please. This university page you provided is short and old.

Just one question: what's wrong with using dotcom domain?

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#408

Post by blurbleblurble »

jimjimjim wrote: post #381
blurbleblurble wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've known about the sunscreen misinformation for a long time. My dad died of malignant melanoma. He wore sun screen all the time. He didn't swim. He would wear sun hats. He was paranoid, and likely had premonition of it. Unfortunately, his prevention methods might have actually exacerbated his odds even further because he was depriving his skin of one of its few natural healing modalities.

it's not misinformation. one anecdote in one direction does not counter thousands in the other direction. Talk to some people in the southern hemisphere (australia and nz). There is a LOT of awareness of sun damage in these countries.

There is misinformation about sunscreen. I'm not going to go and advocate that people don't use sunscreen, rather, for my own self, I've decided that it's important to have positive, moderate exposure to the sun in order to develop a healthy tan, to avoid overexposure, and to use sunscreen and protective clothing if I'm sure to be out in heavy sun.

It's a complex, dynamical issue and there is conflicting evidence about the effectiveness of sunscreen to just blanket reduce melanoma: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22994908

Not only that, there have been some controversies about sunscreens themselves containing questionable ingredients, some of which might actually be carcinogenic. If you're going to market your product as cancer preventative, but go and put carcinogens into that very same product, my trust level in your industry has been reduced by somewhere in the range of 25%-75%.

Somehow, in all this, there are people who think any raw sun exposure is going to cause cancer. That's actually misinformation. Melanin is known to be a protective. How can one go about increasing melanin? By tanning in moderation, letting your skin adapt to the sun. Of course there are people who simply don't tan easily, and yes, they should be cautious. But I'm fortunate to have skin that tans, and I'm going to let it do that!

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#409

Post by blurbleblurble »

GalacticDomin8r wrote: post #356
blurbleblurble wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've known about the sunscreen misinformation for a long time. My dad died of malignant melanoma. He wore sun screen all the time. He didn't swim. He would wear sun hats. He was paranoid, and likely had premonition of it. Unfortunately, his prevention methods might have actually exacerbated his odds even further because he was depriving his skin of one of its few natural healing modalities.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Not smoking doesn't mean you will not get lung cancer.

I know you probably meant that as a comment about correlation vs. causation, which is understandable. I agree that this is a complex issue, and that there are more factors than just sun exposure. But just so you're aware, your analogy rubbed me the wrong way. My father's death was definitely related to sun exposure in some way or another, and probably other factors like diet (he ate a lot of sugar), psychology/hormones (he experienced a lot of stress), and yes, genetics.

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#410

Post by 52-6F-62 »

tomatsu wrote: post #320
52-6F-62 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I started taking it since I've started working inside for my day job. Apparently I should be upping my dosage. I take a multi and one or two D tablets and probably get a max of ~5600 from that outside of any absorbed from foods. I also eat a lot of eggs. My girlfriend will be pleased to know that I'll be upping our egg intake!

> Apparently I should be upping my dosage. Get your current nmol/L value and decide based on that data. In Germany, you have to pay around €30 for that test. It's not covered by insurance for some reason. Anyhow, if they ask for significantly more than that, they are ripping you off.

I'll be booking my yearly physical soon, so I'll ask for a test then.

edit: Just having checked I misread the dosages completely. Right now it's much less.

    Multivitamin  - 400IU
    D3 Supplement - 400IU
I thought the multi was 4000 and I occasionally take 2 of the supplements, but usually 1. Maybe the double strength next time...
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