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The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

theguardian.com

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Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#311

Post by sumedh »

princekolt wrote: post #277
linkregister wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree; most of the produce at Whole Foods is mass-produced organic food, which is in between the quality of megafarm produce and small-farm produce.

But how objective is the difference between all these three? I have the impression most of the people who buy speciality crops wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them in most cases on a blind test.

I have seen lot of comments on reddit about Europeans complaining that vegies from Dutch greenhouses don't taste good. I always wonder if then can differentiate if they did a blind taste.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#312

Post by rpmcmurphy »

I don't want to offend anyone, but could a high rate of suicides on farms have anything to do with the heavy use of pesticides in these places (which operate essentially as nerve agents, so it would not be surprising if they caused higher than normal rates of depression, hoarding, etc). Not trolling, just curious.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#313

Post by dang »

baldfat wrote: post #65

> but the most extreme anti-government/anti-tax ideologies. It's the very definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face. That sadly isn't an extreme ideologies. Every wonder why Republicans are all for tax cuts? Its the simple idea that if the Government has less money it must be smaller. So lower the taxes of the rich and corporations = smaller government. This is why we have problems all the time with tax…

This triggered the sort of low-rent political thread we don't want here. Please don't do that.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15862439 and marked it well off-topic.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#314

Post by [deleted] »

baldfat wrote: post #65

> but the most extreme anti-government/anti-tax ideologies. It's the very definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face. That sadly isn't an extreme ideologies. Every wonder why Republicans are all for tax cuts? Its the simple idea that if the Government has less money it must be smaller. So lower the taxes of the rich and corporations = smaller government. This is why we have problems all the time with tax…

[deleted]

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#315

Post by wahern »

xojp123 wrote: post #82
InvisibleCities wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that just make the overall tax burden worse? You'd have to pay corporate taxes on the farm profits, then pay income taxes on the salary.

I don't think so. I think LLC's allow one to pass through profits without double taxation. C corps, I believe, are the type that suffer from double taxation. Correct me if I am wrong though.

Salaries are a deductible expense for any business entity, so that money is never taxed twice by any reckoning.

The debate about double taxation of corporate profits relates to taxation of dividends, which are neither exempt nor deductible from a business' taxable income. Because shareholders are one and the same as the corporation according to some strains of legal and economic reasoning, by taxing dividends you've taxed the shareholders' profits twice.

If you control a corporation, you could achieve the same tax treatment as pass-through entities merely by paying yourself a salary instead of dividends. But if you did that, pass-through entities are easier because there are fewer formalities involved. The real gripe is that because dividends are taxed at a flat 15-20%, paying yourself in tax-preferred dividends is a tantalizing prospect but-for the supposed double taxation "problem".

The debate is admittedly a little more nuanced when discussing passive investments, but that's a different context than family farms.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#316

Post by winston_smith »

CydeWeys wrote: post #250
yock wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just foolish. I'm not going to forsake the benefit of something I'm forced to pay for. I can, however, still advocate for changes to that system. That isn't hypocrisy.

The system is what allowed the existence of the medium you're using to argue against it. It is hypocritical to argue against the downsides of civilization while taking advantages of all of its benefits.

By that logic you couldn't argue against anything in our current system, since it all played a part in creating the life you live.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#317

Post by icebraining »

CydeWeys wrote: post #250
yock wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just foolish. I'm not going to forsake the benefit of something I'm forced to pay for. I can, however, still advocate for changes to that system. That isn't hypocrisy.

The system is what allowed the existence of the medium you're using to argue against it. It is hypocritical to argue against the downsides of civilization while taking advantages of all of its benefits.

So if a thief steals your car and leaves you his bicycle, it's hypocritical to criticize him while using the bike to get around? Or if you're forced to pay protection money by some gang, it's hypocritical to criticize them even if they do protect your business from other gangs?

And is it hypocritical to live in the West and take advantage of all the benefits it gained from centuries of imperialism and exploitation, while criticizing that behavior?

I'm not against taxation, but that's some BS logic.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#318

Post by visarga »

kfcm wrote: post #272
nradov wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept of farmland being "for sale" at all seems bizarre. This isn't someone's home. Raw land is effectively always for sale, just contact the owner and make an unsolicited offer. Is this just a psychological issue of people being attached to certain parcels or is there some other factor?

I'm guessing you didn't grow up on a farm. There will always be some farmland effectively for sale; but there will also be other farmland which will never be for sale, no matter what the cost. The latter are generally "homeplaces", which have been in the family for generations. Heritage, blood, sweat, and years of hard work bind you to the soil, the land. It's more than an emotional attachment--it's almost spiritual,…

Beautifully said.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#319

Post by kgwgk »

bluGill wrote: post #127
gonzoflip wrote: post #9

I have family that farms in Iowa and I also worked in the agriculture industry there for a while after leaving the military. One thing that increases the stress on the farmers is the way they avoid income taxes at all costs so they rarely save any of the profits from good years to help them float during the bad years. This is all anecdotal but I have personally talked with several farmers that would rather buy new eq…

It isn't just a mindset, it is supported by their accountant. Because of the way depreciation works their long term income is higher by buying new equipment than paying taxes. The busiest week for farm equipment dealers is the week between Christmas and new years. That is when their account calls them and says trading in some machine would reduce their tax bill by more than the payments! Assuming the trade in value i…

Maybe they don’t understand it so well if the end result is making less money... Every company could reduce taxes to zero by lowering prices and increasing costs, but somehow it doesn’t seem a good business plan in the long term.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#320

Post by kgwgk »

DannyB2 wrote: post #60
ravingraven wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that such a strategy is not optimal but it is not quite how you describe it to be. In the mind of the farmer: * $150,000 tractor: something that has value (not easy to calculate, but a $150k tractor has a value above zero, even if not brand new) and utility. * $30,000 to the IRS: money that I will never see again. Literally thrown away money. Option number 1 is very tempting.

I wonder how they see taxes as thrown away? Yes, government is inefficient. And corrupt. But you do need roads. And bridges. And law enforcement. And even military protection, even if it seems far away and remote from your farm.

In the same way that people buys online (or in the neighbouring state) and “forgets” to pay sales tax. It’s better to keep the money.
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