$40 road tolls offer insight into commuter psychology
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Re: $40 road tolls offer insight into commuter psychology
#2> "The real reason there's sticker shock is that the real cost of road transportation is hidden from most voters. Gas tax money goes to states and the US Department of Transportation which flows back as what seems like free federal money to build a lot of roads. Meanwhile, every transit project has to scrimp for funds..." "...estimated that tolls would have to be at least $41 to pay off the costs of construction."
A lot of people take for granted the Eisenhower interstate infrastructure.
Re: $40 road tolls offer insight into commuter psychology
#3Ignoring the morals for a second, with tolls that high and difficulty identifying which vehicles qualify for a HOV exemption, I wonder how many days of tolls a single ticket is and likelihood of being caught?
Let's say a ticket is $150. If the toll is $6 then you're likely better off paying the toll as you're likely to be caught at least once every 25 days. At $40 they'd need to catch you at least once a week for you to lose money. The $150 amount is fictional, I don't know what the ticket would cost, more just a thought experiment.
In any regard, when tolls are this high, you have to consider issues like this. What works for a $4-6 toll doesn't scale to $40 unless the tickets also scale.
Re: $40 road tolls offer insight into commuter psychology
#4I don't think people are being unreasonable by being unhappy with a $40 toll. The way the article words it, solo drivers all of a sudden saw a $40 toll where they previously had no permission to drive at all.
What actually happened was that people were expecting to see a $6 toll be put in place and instead saw a $40. Imagine going to McDonald's where your friend told you that you could get a Filet o' Fish for $1 but when you get there you find out that McDonald's was charging $5. You'd be mad. You still have the option to not buy the sandwich, but it went contrary to your expectations.
So the article is correct, but I don't think they fully accounted for the fact that people had already been told to expect something else. The article mentioned it, but then goes and talks like people are being unreasonably frustrated for tolls that were completely unexpected.
Re: $40 road tolls offer insight into commuter psychology
#5I guess I'm at a loss here because I've lived in DC almost 6 years now and it never occurred to me that I-66 was HOV only during certain portions of the day. I know I am not alone in this because I see similar conversations happening elsewhere.
Additionally, many comments say that single traveler HOV use is forbidden however I frequently see single drivers in the HOV lanes on 66 and elsewhere un-restricted. As a computer vision engineer, I know that DC doesn't have the capability to build camera systems that can infer a single/multi passenger drivers and the number of police that are 1. available and 2. can discern as much are simply not there. Are they now mailing toll charges to everyone who does not have the EZPass system?
What they effectively did was permit free use of I-66 virtually unimpeded, through lack of enforcement of the intended laws, for years and then rapidly and expensively enforce the system.
So the question I have is, how is it that they can go from a minimally (at best) enforced HOV policy to a high toll rate system effectively overnight, and expect that driver behavior will change without outrage?
It seems like it will certainly decrease the road users, IF one of two things happen: they can identify and charge (or overcharge) drivers based on occupancy (I argue they technologically can't) OR rely on self-policing of behavior from drivers.
Re: $40 road tolls offer insight into commuter psychology
#6If the road was already pretty full during rush hour when no solo driver was allowed, how is this new rule going to help by adding even more drivers? Sounds like a major fail to even have that kind of rule in first place.
Re: $40 road tolls offer insight into commuter psychology
#7> "The real reason there's sticker shock is that the real cost of road transportation is hidden from most voters. Gas tax money goes to states and the US Department of Transportation which flows back as what seems like free federal money to build a lot of roads. Meanwhile, every transit project has to scrimp for funds..." "...estimated that tolls would have to be at least $41 to pay off the costs of construction." A…
Recent new bridge in BC, Port mann bridge, was tolled.
But due to lack of ridership, and overhead tolling, they were never going to pay off the bridge.
It's now taken from taxes, everyone in the province pays.
Re: $40 road tolls offer insight into commuter psychology
#8> "The real reason there's sticker shock is that the real cost of road transportation is hidden from most voters. Gas tax money goes to states and the US Department of Transportation which flows back as what seems like free federal money to build a lot of roads. Meanwhile, every transit project has to scrimp for funds..." "...estimated that tolls would have to be at least $41 to pay off the costs of construction." A…
Large public construction projects are vastly more expensive (in real dollars) today than in Eisenhower's.
Re: $40 road tolls offer insight into commuter psychology
#9I guess I'm at a loss here because I've lived in DC almost 6 years now and it never occurred to me that I-66 was HOV only during certain portions of the day. I know I am not alone in this because I see similar conversations happening elsewhere. Additionally, many comments say that single traveler HOV use is forbidden however I frequently see single drivers in the HOV lanes on 66 and elsewhere un-restricted. As a comp…
The other day I was driving along 50 to Annapolis, where the left lane is always HOV for 8 miles after 495, and was passed by a dozen cars in the HOV lane, all single riders. This sort of behavior is a cancer that will destroy America, mark my words.
As to enforcement, in my experience the I-66 HOV is pretty aggressively enforced. They’ll park cop cars in major exits during the toll period pulling people over. I’ve gotten tagged that way when I’ve accidentally taken the road during toll hours when I left work earlier than usual.
Re: $40 road tolls offer insight into commuter psychology
#10I don't think people are being unreasonable by being unhappy with a $40 toll. The way the article words it, solo drivers all of a sudden saw a $40 toll where they previously had no permission to drive at all. What actually happened was that people were expecting to see a $6 toll be put in place and instead saw a $40. Imagine going to McDonald's where your friend told you that you could get a Filet o' Fish for $1 but…
where they previously had no permission to drive at all.
I think this is where it's getting hung up. The signage and all other road markings on I-66 did not give a solo driver the overwhelming impression that they did not have "permission" to drive on those roads. Compounding this is that it was/is only during certain portions of the day.
As an example, if I go onto the Dulles or Loudoun county toll roads, it's explicitly clear with toll booths etc... that YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ON THIS ROAD WITHOUT PAYING. Similar around the country on other toll roads.
If all access is just as easy as any other road and there is no enforcement mechanism (save the odd example of someone you know getting a ticket) or overbearing signage (like on the 495 EZPass lanes) then naturally people would assume it's just like any other "free" highway.
I think DC has a unique driving culture around this and slugging that unless you are just a total stickler for the rules is largely a grab bag game.