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The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

theguardian.com

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Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#301

Post by StanislavPetrov »

yock wrote: post #108
DannyB2 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how they see taxes as thrown away? Yes, government is inefficient. And corrupt. But you do need roads. And bridges. And law enforcement. And even military protection, even if it seems far away and remote from your farm.

Aside from military protection, that is a list of things largely irrelevant to people who live in rural areas. It's money to be confiscated from them and used to prop up societies to which they have little to no connection.

Especially when you consider that the cost of "military protection" would be is a tiny, tiny fraction of what we spend annually to maintain our global military empire that offers no protection at all (and actually serves to create many new enemies and threats).

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#302

Post by mythrwy »

gumballhead wrote: post #279
froindt wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's land in the middle of nowhere. If you're near a city you can get a nice premium as the suburbs expand. 4x is a bit extreme (been a long time since it was that much). But it's expensive. In the middle of nowhere there have been quite a number of land sales with $10k+/acre in the past handful of years. Farmland prices have been kinda crazy over the last 5-10 years. As a quick example of some math: * Rent prices…

With rent at $230/ac and land prices at $7k+, it's about a 3% annual return. So it's more like 30+ years to break even.

Assuming the land doesn't appreciate further. (and we are pretty sure it won't depreciate to nothing)

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#303

Post by baldfat »

EdSharkey wrote: post #285
baldfat wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I disagree, you're just assuming everyone's stuck in old tribal thinking when there's so much evidence to the contrary. I wish you were correct but what evidence? Facebook and the Internet has increased Tribalism to Yellow Journalism levels. We have Breitbart and MSNBC. People mostly just read news and opinions that they agree with and don't listen to the other side. http://fortune.com/2017/01/13/fake-news-tribalis…

> Facebook Obama ran great campaigns, including social networks where his opponents did not -- won in landslides. Same with Trump and Hillary. Winners targeted, with laser focus, on individuals. The messages resonated; people DID listen to the other side! Meanwhile, especially in the last two years, traditional media has totally faltered. News agencies rocked by fake news scandals, Hollywood getting #metoo'd up the k…

> Obama ran great campaigns

He was a strong candidate

> I don't get the opposition to the Electoral College system

I'm not and I agree, but I am talking local elections and state elections are minimizing votes and then on top of that we have 2 minority vote presidents discourage people's voting.

> No, I just took your "Case in point" about increased wages and benefits as equating to less tax revenues being collected

No I just think the right thing to do is to make the working poor have a better incentive to keep work and they will spend. Give money top the Rich and it sits in a bank. I am not for Small Government I am for efficient government which I believe includes out nation safety net :)

> It really shakes my confidence, what are any of these numbers based on??

Numbers and facts mean nothing in today's conversations. Taxes have and always will be a political tool of conservatives and libertarians (AKA neo-anarcist)

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#304

Post by mythrwy »

bllguo wrote: post #257
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if the people who have to use those roads are ok with roads like that why should they pay taxes so the state can turn around and use those taxes to pay for pavement they don't need?

This is a disgusting perspective. The civilization they live in is bankrolled by taxes. The TV they watch, electricity they use, everything they purchase, the customers that purchase their crops... All of this is possible because people pay taxes for the greater good of society.

There isn't anything wrong with tax avoidance.

Additionally some debatably large portion of tax money is wasted or spent on things you completely disagree with, no matter what your political perspective.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#305

Post by totalZero »

Spooky23 wrote: post #254
nradov wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept of farmland being "for sale" at all seems bizarre. This isn't someone's home. Raw land is effectively always for sale, just contact the owner and make an unsolicited offer. Is this just a psychological issue of people being attached to certain parcels or is there some other factor?

No way. Land has low carrying cost and people will sit on it for years to speculate or hold neighbors hostage.

In theory, does land appreciate at the risk-free rate? Or does holding land mean that you lose the opportunity cost of what you could have otherwise done with the money?

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#306

Post by mythrwy »

EdSharkey wrote: post #285
baldfat wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I disagree, you're just assuming everyone's stuck in old tribal thinking when there's so much evidence to the contrary. I wish you were correct but what evidence? Facebook and the Internet has increased Tribalism to Yellow Journalism levels. We have Breitbart and MSNBC. People mostly just read news and opinions that they agree with and don't listen to the other side. http://fortune.com/2017/01/13/fake-news-tribalis…

> Facebook Obama ran great campaigns, including social networks where his opponents did not -- won in landslides. Same with Trump and Hillary. Winners targeted, with laser focus, on individuals. The messages resonated; people DID listen to the other side! Meanwhile, especially in the last two years, traditional media has totally faltered. News agencies rocked by fake news scandals, Hollywood getting #metoo'd up the k…

"I don't get the opposition to the Electoral College system, it's a check on large population cities/states running the board."

And.... there's your answer.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#307

Post by mythrwy »

Tade0 wrote: post #83
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #7

Local farm services guy had this to say: "Used to buy truckloads of fertilizer, then the coop would buy train car loads and undercut us. So we bought a train car - they bought a train. We bought a train - they bought a barge. The margins are disappearing entirely" Almost everybody is being squeezed out by 'economies of scale'. And its going to get worse, when we start making simple foodstuffs electrically (starch, su…

> when we start making simple foodstuffs electrically (starch, sugar, protein). Interesting. Do you happen to know what's the state of research on this?

Probably something like this is more imminent than creating non-biological food from water and sunlight electrically.

After all, wood is just long chains of sugar.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/04/could-wood-feed-world

From there proteins can be created using the sugars as a substrate. Once again, will probably be a biological process. Nutritive yeasts are interesting.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#308

Post by aisofteng »

moduspol wrote: post #295
addicted wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because upper middle class earners in blue states, and blue states in general, already pay out more in taxes than they get back. Rural areas don’t.

Parent point: Why do farmers see taxes paid as providing no value to them? Don't they want roads? My point: Nobody wants to pay taxes they don't have to, and farmers are no different from upper-middle class blue state residents in that regard. It doesn't mean they literally don't want roads. That blue state residents already pay more in taxes than they get back is irrelevant. Nobody wants to pay more in taxes, and th…

>Nobody wants to pay more in taxes

Bullshit. I'm happy to pay more in taxes if it means that the society I'm a part of improves as a consequence.

Whether money from a tax increase is well spent is another question, however.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#309

Post by EdSharkey »

baldfat wrote: post #303
EdSharkey wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook Obama ran great campaigns, including social networks where his opponents did not -- won in landslides. Same with Trump and Hillary. Winners targeted, with laser focus, on individuals. The messages resonated; people DID listen to the other side! Meanwhile, especially in the last two years, traditional media has totally faltered. News agencies rocked by fake news scandals, Hollywood getting #metoo'd up the k…

> Obama ran great campaigns He was a strong candidate > I don't get the opposition to the Electoral College system I'm not and I agree, but I am talking local elections and state elections are minimizing votes and then on top of that we have 2 minority vote presidents discourage people's voting. > No, I just took your "Case in point" about increased wages and benefits as equating to less tax revenues being collected…

> Strong candidate

In 2012? After Obamacare?? Not so strong! Romney ran a traditional campaign with broken-ass digital and get out the vote. Trump was savvy. He spent big on comment bots and social ads, Hill had none of that because she had no clue how to campaign, form a compelling message, budget, be truthful, etc.

> I am not for Small Government I am for efficient government which I believe includes out nation safety net

If we could only prioritize ...

> a political tool of conservatives and libertarians (AKA neo-anarcist)

And liberals are pure of heart and would never use tax as a political weapon? Please, hehe.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#310

Post by sumedh »

cnlwsu wrote: post #56
mc32 wrote: post #6

There was an article on HN not long ago [1] about professionals leaving their jobs in record numbers to pursue life as a farmer, producing and living off the land. How do we reconcile on the one hand farmers by trade leaving and wannabe farmers wanting to join a farm life? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15771168

"The grass is always greener". I grew up on a dairy farm, its easy to romanticize it but the reality of waking up to literally chip and shovel frozen shit at 5am (almost daily chore to clean barns in winter) gets old after a decade. I worked hard to get out of farming and never want to go back. I love my tech job.

> I worked hard to get out of farming and never want to go back.

I saw a documentary on Youtube about Italian dairy farmers, their kids wanted to get out so the farms started importing people from Punjab(India) who were already skilled in dairy handling.

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