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The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

theguardian.com

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Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#251

Post by tomjen3 »

zeveb wrote: post #246
tomjen3 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like they could use the model that made Danish farmers rich in the 19th century: you get everybody together and buy seeds, etc through one company, then you divide any profit and loss on that company equally among everybody (so the company effective does not make any profit). The same thing can be done for a dairy processing system, meat plant or anywhere else that a large number of people need to buy and sell…

How does that handle a 'farmer' who just does a desultory job of farming? I.e., he doesn't outright not farm, but he barely seeds, harvests badly and thus produces very little.

That is the smart part of the system: he will get very little out it, as the proceeds are distributed based an how much money you spend/sell for.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#252

Post by gozur88 »

adventured wrote: post #77
rb808 wrote: post #25

The amazing thing is the median age of farmers in the USA is ~56. In the next ten years over half are retire-able. Who is going to take over? Corporations or the current immigrant workers? Its a huge change for most of the country.

Farming will do what it has been doing for two centuries in the US: leap forward in automation. The technology is all primed to cause an extraordinary increase in productivity. Meanwhile the US population growth is trending toward zero. Odds are, the US can lose half its farmers over the next 30 years and still increase net food production to match very modest population growth.

This isn't a new trend. In 1820 72% of Americans worked in "farm occupations". Today it's less than 2%.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#253

Post by jessriedel »

nradov wrote: post #247
froindt wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One thing that increases the stress on the farmers is the way they avoid income taxes at all costs so they rarely save any of the profits from good years to help them float during the bad years. I'm from Iowa and a family member does lots of farm bankruptcies here. This is definitely a thing. Farmers buy new pickup trucks in lieu of showing a profit. Pair that in with land purchases at 7k+/acre and the saying "the n…

The concept of farmland being "for sale" at all seems bizarre. This isn't someone's home. Raw land is effectively always for sale, just contact the owner and make an unsolicited offer. Is this just a psychological issue of people being attached to certain parcels or is there some other factor?

You can make an unsolicited offer to homeowners too. In both cases, something being "not for sale" means the price should be higher because there are large transition costs with unexpected moves.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#254

Post by Spooky23 »

nradov wrote: post #247
froindt wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One thing that increases the stress on the farmers is the way they avoid income taxes at all costs so they rarely save any of the profits from good years to help them float during the bad years. I'm from Iowa and a family member does lots of farm bankruptcies here. This is definitely a thing. Farmers buy new pickup trucks in lieu of showing a profit. Pair that in with land purchases at 7k+/acre and the saying "the n…

The concept of farmland being "for sale" at all seems bizarre. This isn't someone's home. Raw land is effectively always for sale, just contact the owner and make an unsolicited offer. Is this just a psychological issue of people being attached to certain parcels or is there some other factor?

No way. Land has low carrying cost and people will sit on it for years to speculate or hold neighbors hostage.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#255

Post by workthrowaway27 »

Analemma_ wrote: post #207
Moru wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first thing I learned when I started working life in a store was: "We do not compete by undercutting the competition. That will kill us both."

Which only works until someone like Amazon comes around. Market inefficiencies which only persist by mutual agreement are doomed in the long run.

That's not an example of a market inefficiency. It's an example of Amazon having a structural advantage that allows it to be profitable at a lower cost to consumers.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#256

Post by dclowd9901 »

coliveira wrote: post #229
bluGill wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't just a mindset, it is supported by their accountant. Because of the way depreciation works their long term income is higher by buying new equipment than paying taxes. The busiest week for farm equipment dealers is the week between Christmas and new years. That is when their account calls them and says trading in some machine would reduce their tax bill by more than the payments! Assuming the trade in value i…

But this is not necessarily a good thing. If you don't need a new truck, buying that truck is worse than paying the taxes and getting some profit. The truck will be sitting there unused and it cannot be resold for the full price paid.

Especially when the truck depreciates so much. That's several thousand right there.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#257

Post by bllguo »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #228
evgen wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those farmers are deluded. Their roads cost far more in upkeep then they return in economic benefit and if the farmers had to pay for their own roads they would be nothing more than dirt paths and remain blanketed by several feet of snow all winter long.

And if the people who have to use those roads are ok with roads like that why should they pay taxes so the state can turn around and use those taxes to pay for pavement they don't need?

This is a disgusting perspective. The civilization they live in is bankrolled by taxes. The TV they watch, electricity they use, everything they purchase, the customers that purchase their crops... All of this is possible because people pay taxes for the greater good of society.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#258

Post by dclowd9901 »

cnlwsu wrote: post #56
mc32 wrote: post #6

There was an article on HN not long ago [1] about professionals leaving their jobs in record numbers to pursue life as a farmer, producing and living off the land. How do we reconcile on the one hand farmers by trade leaving and wannabe farmers wanting to join a farm life? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15771168

"The grass is always greener". I grew up on a dairy farm, its easy to romanticize it but the reality of waking up to literally chip and shovel frozen shit at 5am (almost daily chore to clean barns in winter) gets old after a decade. I worked hard to get out of farming and never want to go back. I love my tech job.

I dunno, man. I spent a few days working on building a house in the pouring rain, and it was better than the last 5 years I've been doing behind a computer. Only reason I didn't quit then and there is because I have financial obligations.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#259

Post by linkregister »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #195
cortesoft wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, there are two different markets, commodity crops and specialty crops (e.g. mega-crop tomatos vs organic local tomatoes) You can be in either market, but it is hard to switch between them. The equipment, land area used, process, etc are different.

Also there is no middle ground, it's one or the other.

I disagree; most of the produce at Whole Foods is mass-produced organic food, which is in between the quality of megafarm produce and small-farm produce.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#260

Post by CodeWriter23 »

walshemj wrote: post #196
mediaman wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLC are pass-through entities. So, let's say you're a farmer, and you set up Farm, LLC, and then set up Profit, LLC. Profit LLC has to charge Farm LLC enough to eliminate the profits that Farm LLC generates. One way to do this is to have Profit LLC own the land, and Farm LLC pays Profit LLC a lease rate on the land that nicely eliminates the profit from Farm LLC. This is all well and good, but now you've just shifted…

How do you pay income tax on income not received isn't that the point of having a company to allow it to build up reserves and don't US REITS work that way. Uk REITS and IT's certainly do The US tax system is really insane some times

Corps have to pay taxes on profit.
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