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The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

theguardian.com

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Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#101

Post by sbarre »

Cuuugi wrote: post #76
DannyB2 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how they see taxes as thrown away? Yes, government is inefficient. And corrupt. But you do need roads. And bridges. And law enforcement. And even military protection, even if it seems far away and remote from your farm.

One common feeling (i am from a farming community in Canada) is that tax revenue tends to get siphoned to urban areas. Politicians focus on bigger voting blocks, while rural communities (in their mind) pay for those promises.

What's the feeling about the other side of that, which is industry-specific subsidies?

While not on the same level as the US, Canada still provides significant farm subsidies, which comes from.. tax revenue!

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#102

Post by zrail »

danans wrote: post #93
colanderman wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumb question, as I am neither a farmer nor a businessperson, but is there a way for a farmer to set up, say, an LLC, which holds money from profitable years for use in unprofitable years, from which the farmer takes a steady salary each year?

No, because LLCs have to close their books every year and distribute any profits or losses to their members. You can't keep an untaxed rainy day fund in them. Edit: Yes, I meant distribute for taxation purposes (K1 form), not actually transfer the funds

Not true at all. An LLC passes through these things for tax purposes only. Each owner is taxed on their pro-rata share of the business’ income offset by its losses, but the business doesn’t have to distribute anything at all. It’s common to distribute at least enough to cover those taxes but it’s never normally required by state or federal law.

Edit: you can’t keep an untaxed rainy day fund, that’s true. If you keep cash in the business from one year and use it on expenses the following, you deduct those expenses for the year they occurred. If that incurs a net operating loss you can carry that loss backwards or forwards if you want.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#103

Post by sbarre »

nsxwolf wrote: post #69
ravingraven wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that such a strategy is not optimal but it is not quite how you describe it to be. In the mind of the farmer: * $150,000 tractor: something that has value (not easy to calculate, but a $150k tractor has a value above zero, even if not brand new) and utility. * $30,000 to the IRS: money that I will never see again. Literally thrown away money. Option number 1 is very tempting.

I know people who do the same thing with charitable donations. They donate to an organization because they "need the tax deduction". Despite that they'd have more money in their pocket if they just didn't make the donation in the first place.

Yeah but the upside of that particularly ignorance is that a charity gets a donation.. Win-win in my book.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#104

Post by jeffdavis »

ringaroundthetx wrote: post #70
gonzoflip wrote: post #9

I have family that farms in Iowa and I also worked in the agriculture industry there for a while after leaving the military. One thing that increases the stress on the farmers is the way they avoid income taxes at all costs so they rarely save any of the profits from good years to help them float during the bad years. This is all anecdotal but I have personally talked with several farmers that would rather buy new eq…

> The farmers would talk about struggling, but have a brand new semi-tractor sitting in a barn unused 10 months out of the year. Don't you think that PERCEPTION is a horrible mindset? Less sympathy to people's stresses because they haven't lost their dignity. This applies to street beggars, immigrants, etc. The stuff I've heard are appalling. Formally middle class immigrants getting less empathy because they have cel…

Is it possible to criticize decisions and have empathy at the same time?

Or is criticism not acceptable at all?

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#105

Post by pavement »

InvisibleCities wrote: post #79
colanderman wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumb question, as I am neither a farmer nor a businessperson, but is there a way for a farmer to set up, say, an LLC, which holds money from profitable years for use in unprofitable years, from which the farmer takes a steady salary each year?

Wouldn't that just make the overall tax burden worse? You'd have to pay corporate taxes on the farm profits, then pay income taxes on the salary.

Getting extremely creative, one might run a surprisingly unprofitable farm, while paying one's self minimum wage to operate the farm, single-handedly.

Getting creative, of course... But you know, a legitimate business would never operate like this, right?

They wouldn't take such a "subjective" point of view, when interpreting what are typically held as "objective" values and facts with only one single interpretation of The Truth, right?

Oh, wait...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#106

Post by sjg007 »

danielvf wrote: post #74
claudiulodro wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happens any time your only differentiator is price. The small guy is never going to be able to compete with a larger company on only price. Never make your differentiator "we're cheaper"! It's business 101.

Unless that’s a game you can win - see Amazon.

But Amazon is not cheaper for all things.. I think their original value add was free shipping.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#107

Post by jartelt »

I imagine that farmers' high rate of gun ownership and social isolation are the big factors. It's pretty well documented that people with guns are more likely to successfully take their lives when compared to suicidal people who do not have guns. Couple that with the fact that there is not really a support system or general awareness of this issue and you have a problem. Veterans are also likely to own guns, but at least they have the VA and other organizations that are readily available to help in the event of emotional or psychological issues. Farmers do not have an equivalent organization.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#108

Post by yock »

DannyB2 wrote: post #60
ravingraven wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that such a strategy is not optimal but it is not quite how you describe it to be. In the mind of the farmer: * $150,000 tractor: something that has value (not easy to calculate, but a $150k tractor has a value above zero, even if not brand new) and utility. * $30,000 to the IRS: money that I will never see again. Literally thrown away money. Option number 1 is very tempting.

I wonder how they see taxes as thrown away? Yes, government is inefficient. And corrupt. But you do need roads. And bridges. And law enforcement. And even military protection, even if it seems far away and remote from your farm.

Aside from military protection, that is a list of things largely irrelevant to people who live in rural areas. It's money to be confiscated from them and used to prop up societies to which they have little to no connection.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#109

Post by rndmize »

avs733 wrote: post #90
ravingraven wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that such a strategy is not optimal but it is not quite how you describe it to be. In the mind of the farmer: * $150,000 tractor: something that has value (not easy to calculate, but a $150k tractor has a value above zero, even if not brand new) and utility. * $30,000 to the IRS: money that I will never see again. Literally thrown away money. Option number 1 is very tempting.

The problem with that is that its only a $150,000 tractor until you drive it off the lot. I would be if the day after you bought it you are lucky if it is a $120,000 tractor. Averseness to government is taxation is so engrained in some country it is almost genetic...and it leads to utterly bad thinking by individuals.

I suspect this isn't only averseness to taxation. Loss aversion is a well known human behavior, and when you have to write out a huge check to the government at the end of the year instead of having it taken out of your paycheck automatically, I could def see this kicking in pretty strongly.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#110

Post by gonzoflip »

colanderman wrote: post #75
gonzoflip wrote: post #9

I have family that farms in Iowa and I also worked in the agriculture industry there for a while after leaving the military. One thing that increases the stress on the farmers is the way they avoid income taxes at all costs so they rarely save any of the profits from good years to help them float during the bad years. This is all anecdotal but I have personally talked with several farmers that would rather buy new eq…

Dumb question, as I am neither a farmer nor a businessperson, but is there a way for a farmer to set up, say, an LLC, which holds money from profitable years for use in unprofitable years, from which the farmer takes a steady salary each year?

Almost all of the farms that I dealt with were incorporated.
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