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The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

theguardian.com

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Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#41

Post by pc86 »

halestock wrote: post #12
gonzoflip wrote: post #9

I have family that farms in Iowa and I also worked in the agriculture industry there for a while after leaving the military. One thing that increases the stress on the farmers is the way they avoid income taxes at all costs so they rarely save any of the profits from good years to help them float during the bad years. This is all anecdotal but I have personally talked with several farmers that would rather buy new eq…

Is this for philosophical reasons about taxes and government? Or is it just a big chunk of money they're trying to save?

I think if anything it can be traced to a fundamental misunderstanding about how fractions work (and less glibly, basic personal finance). Choosing to spend $150,000 on things you objectively do not need in order to not have to write a $30,000 check to the IRS and put $120,000 in the bank for next year is not a rational decision for all but the most extreme anti-government/anti-tax ideologies. It's the very definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#42

Post by amelius »

mc32 wrote: post #6

There was an article on HN not long ago [1] about professionals leaving their jobs in record numbers to pursue life as a farmer, producing and living off the land. How do we reconcile on the one hand farmers by trade leaving and wannabe farmers wanting to join a farm life? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15771168

Probably some kind of extorsion going on. E.g. Monsanto selling seeds for exorbitant prices. Financial constructs that farmers can't get out of, or other business practices that make farmers desperate.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#43

Post by simplicio »

dictum wrote: post #22
pc86 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that a valid criticism? Doesn't that just boil down to "people who want to do x and have money can end up in a better spot than people who inherited x and have less money?"

> Doesn't that just boil down to "people who want to do x and have money can end up in a better spot than people who inherited x and have less money?" Is that not a valid criticism?

I mean, inheriting a farm is inheriting a lot of money. Were family farmers perfectly rational economic actors, they'd presumably sell their inherited farm and use the proceeds to buy one more suited to the newer, locally grown, organic type farms that are more insulated from the economies of scale that are driving them out of business.

But obviously people aren't such rational actors, and farmers have emotional attachments to their farms, the rural areas they grew up in, etc. And so they keep trying to make the old model work, increase their debt loads and hope things will turn around until its too late.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#44

Post by RamenJunkie_ »

gonzoflip wrote: post #17
halestock wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this for philosophical reasons about taxes and government? Or is it just a big chunk of money they're trying to save?

I think both, but is it really saving money if you personally are unable to buy food after a bad season?

If it's philosophical then it doesn't matter, it's just short sighted. They just see it as "The government taking my money" vs "at least I own this semi, even if it's useless it's mine"

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#46

Post by gonzoflip »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #40
gonzoflip wrote: post #9

I have family that farms in Iowa and I also worked in the agriculture industry there for a while after leaving the military. One thing that increases the stress on the farmers is the way they avoid income taxes at all costs so they rarely save any of the profits from good years to help them float during the bad years. This is all anecdotal but I have personally talked with several farmers that would rather buy new eq…

> The farmers would talk about struggling, but have a brand new semi-tractor sitting in a barn unused 10 months out of the year. Your business having a illiquid depreciating asset that is required for the business to function can still be struggling. You can't eat a combine, you can't trade it away. This is usually solved with coops owning the equipment and time sharing it to distribute the costs among the coop parti…

I am not talking about a combine, I can understand the need for having your own combine during harvest. I am talking about a brand new fully optioned Peterbilt Semi-tractor, or buying a new pickup each year.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#47

Post by dictum »

apetresc wrote: post #34
dictum wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doesn't that just boil down to "people who want to do x and have money can end up in a better spot than people who inherited x and have less money?" Is that not a valid criticism?

Of what?

Not the phenomenon itself — everyone should be free to pick a new career as circumstances and desires change — but of some interpretations of that phenomenon.

I don't want to set up a straw man here, but a hypothetical analyst could look at this trend and think something special is happening with farming (as mc32 put: "[thinking] that they have a better farming plan or better farming insight over generational farmers") — picture a cover story with the headline "farming is back", now picture a less upmarket story titled "15 reasons to be a farmer (ear of corn emoji)! You won't BELIEVE number 12!".

Whereas it's an iteration of the eternal "strike gold, open a boutique" story.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#48

Post by giardini »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #23
mc32 wrote: post #6

There was an article on HN not long ago [1] about professionals leaving their jobs in record numbers to pursue life as a farmer, producing and living off the land. How do we reconcile on the one hand farmers by trade leaving and wannabe farmers wanting to join a farm life? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15771168

You can have a rural life, and not be hurt by the vagaries of farm prices etc. Me for instance. I live on 80 acres outside Iowa City (a college town). The neighbor does the farming of half the land; he pays rent on the land and suffers the risk all himself. So best of both worlds for me. I have my orchard, gardens, sheds, tractor (for mowing and plowing) and rural vistas. And work remotely at software for whomever, a…

JoeAltmaier says>" he pays rent on the land and suffers the risk all himself."

Doesn't that depend on which way the wind blows (you can be exposed to airborne chemicals and organisms)? And what about the water supply - any problem with nitrates, for example?

I envy you to some degree, but my mother's relatives lived on farms and paid heavy dues health-wise for that.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#49

Post by jefurii »

simplicio wrote: post #43
dictum wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doesn't that just boil down to "people who want to do x and have money can end up in a better spot than people who inherited x and have less money?" Is that not a valid criticism?

I mean, inheriting a farm is inheriting a lot of money. Were family farmers perfectly rational economic actors, they'd presumably sell their inherited farm and use the proceeds to buy one more suited to the newer, locally grown, organic type farms that are more insulated from the economies of scale that are driving them out of business. But obviously people aren't such rational actors, and farmers have emotional atta…

I can't speak to anyone else's experience but when my uncle took over the (CA Central Valley) family farm he didn't experience a windfall. And most years he made more money at his side job (substitute teaching) than from the farm.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#50

Post by neolefty »

PrimalDual wrote: post #24

There are few places where market forces work as well as in farming. Which is surprising considering the distortions imposed by subsidies. Still, I think this is a case where automation will eliminate many if not all of their jobs and the market is doing a good job at signaling that they probably need to change professions. This especially rang true when they mentioned how the price of a wheat bushel appeared to belo…

What would a good role of government be?

It sounds like subsidizing getting people off the farm would be helpful, but that's also loaded politically.

One program I've heard of working well is subsidizing fallow land that eventually just becomes wild and never returns to cultivation.

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