AMA: NY AG Schneiderman on net neutrality and protecting our voice in government • Hacker News Board

Re: AMA: NY AG Schneiderman on net neutrality and protecting our voice in government

#151

Post by mc32 » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:12 PM UTC

AGSchneiderman wrote: post #83

mc32 wrote: post #10

Would you mind commenting on these findings? They seem to have found that both sides have been stuffing the ballot box: http://www.emprata.com/reports/fcc-restoring-internet-freedo... Also, can you work on net neutrality for all bits? That is Google, Facebook, Twitter, as the main gateways to public discourse treat all comments equally without promoting one viewpoint over another that does not enjoy elite sanction? W…

I’m glad you asked – this report is really telling. It’s been reported that this study was paid for by Broadband for America, which counts many big ISPs as members. Yet even this study found massive flaws in the comments, including about 8 million comments using made-up identities. Also revealing, is its findings about the approximately 1.5 million comments that were personalized, meaning someone felt so strongly abo…

Thank you for responding.

I think those numbers point to their study attempting to be open about their findings, despite being commissioned by ISPs. However concerning is they found quite a few faked email addresses with foreign domains --people who even if real should have little to say how we govern our telecoms.

Nonetheless my question remains concerning the virtual triumvirate controlling what is acceptable and non acceptable public opinion, given they are the new voice of the hoi polloi. We have to find a way to ensure people's right to voice an opinion isn't virtually infringed by having a de facto triumvirate establishing what is and isn't accepted as public discourse, given they have very specific corporate agenda which could run counter to public opinion.

Re: AMA: NY AG Schneiderman on net neutrality and protecting our voice in government

#152

Post by AGSchneiderman » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:16 PM UTC

anechoe wrote: post #57

AG Schneiderman: Thank you for doing this and setting up this website. I actually hadn't checked until now, and found a false comment - it isn't from me though, it's from my biological mom, who's been dead for almost 20 years now. Is there a way for me to file a report for this? My representatives are already for net neutrality, but I will see what else I can do to support this cause. Thank you for fighting for our f…

That's awful and I'm sorry to hear it. You can report the fake comment to my office at https://ag.ny.gov/fakecomments.

Re: AMA: NY AG Schneiderman on net neutrality and protecting our voice in government

#153

Post by jerkstate » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:17 PM UTC

bifrost wrote: post #139

jerkstate wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true. Content providers usually pay a (usually many) intermediary (usually a tier 1 or tier 2 backbone provider) to deliver the traffic to the ISP. In order to deliver the traffic from one network to the other, both companies need to have short and long haul cables, routers with high speed interfaces, and employees to manage and maintain those things. So there are costs of this traffic borne by both companies.…

Its rarely opaque TBH. Its usually pretty obvious who's failing to hold up to their end of the bargain. Gamers figure this out on their own all the time.

I've seen a lot of cases where people think they figured it out but are wrong. Traceroutes are hard to interpret. Did you know that most paths on the Internet are asymmetric, and traceroute doesn't tell you what the reverse path is?

Re: AMA: NY AG Schneiderman on net neutrality and protecting our voice in government

#154

Post by swapsmagic » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:18 PM UTC

It's so easy to identify those fake comments by just looking at few. I figure this is one of the comments that seems fake. Why is it taking long to identify there are lot of fake comments in it?

'The unprecedented regulatory power the Obama Administration imposed on the internet is smothering innovation, damaging the American economy and obstructing job creation. I urge the Federal Communications Commission to end the bureaucratic regulatory overreach of the internet known as Title II and restore the bipartisan light-touch regulatory consensus that enabled the internet to flourish for more than 20 years. The plan currently under consideration at the FCC to repeal Obama's Title II power grab is a positive step forward and will help to promote a truly free and open internet for everyone.'

Re: AMA: NY AG Schneiderman on net neutrality and protecting our voice in government

#155

Post by pwnage » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:23 PM UTC

_d8fd wrote: post #102

If net neutrality fails, would it makes sense aggressively pursue a legal effort to break up "big cable"? Back in the long distance/DSL days, the local telcos were forced into allowing alternate vendors to sell long distance & Internet service over the copper wire running to one's house. Can we bust up Comcast's strangehold on the Internet service available to my apartment by forcing them to allow any vendor to sell…

Did this make sense in 2014 before the regulations?

Re: AMA: NY AG Schneiderman on net neutrality and protecting our voice in government

#156

Post by m0ther » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:27 PM UTC

AGSchneiderman wrote: post #140

m0ther wrote: post #39

Do you need help? This is one of the best communities in the world to ask to write free analysis software to help you determine which entries were likely to have been automated.

If you have ideas for how to help my office's investigation, we welcome them. You can get in touch at https://ag.ny.gov/contact-attorney-general . Generally speaking, I encourage anyone who wants to get involved in the fight to protect net neutrality to reach out to organizations they support that have been active and vocal here, and offer their support. Nonprofits and advocacy organizations are always in need of com…

I am one, of I am sure many, here who have written automated fraud prevention software.

Post a dataset somewhere that we can run our algorithms against, and a way of getting our findings back to you.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20130138427A1

Re: AMA: NY AG Schneiderman on net neutrality and protecting our voice in government

#157

Post by vinylkey » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:29 PM UTC

Do know of any resources that explain Net Neutrality in a non-partisan, clear, concise manner?

My dad is under the impression that Net Neutrality is bad because "the government has no business with the Internet." I'd like to provide him with some good information to try to sway his mind, but most simple explanations I can find are comedic in nature (John Oliver, The Oatmeal webcomic), or are from a "liberal source." Any help on swaying someone for this issue would be greatly appreciated.

Re: AMA: NY AG Schneiderman on net neutrality and protecting our voice in government

#158

Post by freedomben » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:32 PM UTC

charleslmunger wrote: post #141

freedomben wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you also extend this to allow for pay-for-what-you-use? I don't disagree with charging people more for how much they use, but a lot of net neutrality proponents lose their minds at the suggestion that somebody who uses 5 GB a month should pay less than the kid streaming 10 TB of torrents every month.

I think the overlap between those is muddled for a few reasons: 1. Zero rating. Wikipedia+facebook is free, everything else counts towards the cap. This was a subject of major debate in India. 2. First party zero rating - YouTube and Vonage count towards the cap, your ISP's streaming video or VOIP service does not. 3. Negotiated zero rating. "binge on" and similar, which is basically vendor neutral but limits the typ…

Good thoughts. That does get muddy. I wonder how long though until AWS Included service comes around that allows data in and out on partner networks to be uncounted for any AWS customers of business using that service? That's a hypothetical of course, but I could see it.

Re: AMA: NY AG Schneiderman on net neutrality and protecting our voice in government

#159

Post by comex » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:33 PM UTC

jerkstate wrote: post #147

DiThi wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The user paid for internet access, but streaming video services pay too. The more distance there is, the more effort may be required to guarantee some minimum speed, and in some cases may not even be possible. Internet sea cables are not unlimited. Net Neutrality means you treat packets equally[0], not that you can put an unlimited amount of them. But if the user can get a faster speed through a VPN than without (as…

An end-user ISP is going to have a lot of different pipes for a lot of different transit providers, which are going to have unequal utilization and different data. Internet bandwidth is not fungible in the way that, say, electricity is. Each network provider that the packet is passed thru inspects the destination address in order to determine which pipe to send it on to get it closer to its destination. If that pipe…

In Comcast’s case, the congested pipe was just the connection between Level3’s network and Comcast's. Level3 and Comcast had an existing settlement-free peering agreement (no money paid in either direction), and Level3 wanted to keep it that way, but Comcast wanted to start charging Level3, arguing that it was sending it far more traffic than it was receiving. Level3 argued that it shouldn’t have to pay because (most of) that traffic had been requested by Comcast customers in the first place.

Also:

> [Level3] tells me that it actually offered to give the necessary hardware to Comcast (at around $50,000 per port) and that it offered to do "cold-potato" routing deep into Comcast's network, dropping off streaming traffic near the customers who requested it, for instance.

source: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/12/comcastlevel3

Re: AMA: NY AG Schneiderman on net neutrality and protecting our voice in government

#160

Post by cbhl » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:34 PM UTC

Dear Mr. Schneiderman:

There are many places where I can get faster internet from my cell phone than I can from DSL or independent ISPs. How do we get ISPs to invest in faster internet (such as gigabit FTTH)?