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The Bitcoin Flaw: Monero Rising

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31–40 of 61 posts

Re: The Bitcoin Flaw: Monero Rising

#31
If the argument is ever "the government could force X to do Y" then you need to finish your thinking.

If the government taxes mixed coins they will extend that tax to coins where it is impossible to detect. "Prove me they weren't mixed" is just as easy for the IRS to say as "prove to me that you bought at $500/BTC".

If anything, Bitcoin's track-ability is likely going to give it some thin veneer of government acceptance, even if I think that people underestimate how careful the truly evil can be.

Re: The Bitcoin Flaw: Monero Rising

#32
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mistake. I thought fungibility=spendability. Am I thinking about liquidity?

No, liquidity is a measure of how easy and cheap an asset can be traded in the markets.

In economics, liquidity is often referred to as "spendability".

Re: The Bitcoin Flaw: Monero Rising

#33

I agree with the premise that fungibility is important to Bitcoin's success, but I disagree that Bitcoin is 'flawed' or has in some way lost to Monero. There was an update yesterday on the progress being made on privacy features in Bitcoin: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017... On a related note, I am happy about the conservative and careful pace of development of Bitcoin. I don't want my st…

Bitcoin will eventually pull in the fungibility of Monero. Monero will stick around only as long as it remains relevant in point out that flaw in Bitcoin.

Re: The Bitcoin Flaw: Monero Rising

#34
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin may not be dead but it is certainly being destroyed on its original purpose (being money). The only reason to hold Bitcoin is the naive hope that more suckers (not even a better word for them) pay you to hold something they think will go higher (again: suckers) There are networks that are faster / more secure than Bitcoin and therefore more valuable as usable money (which is what Bitcoin was supposed to be) B…

NOT being backed by any one country or central bank is Bitcoin's primary value proposition.

>NOT being backed by any one country or central bank is Bitcoin's primary value proposition.

Absolutely.

But if no one is backing it and it has no purpose that supports its value, it shouldn't be worth a lot.

Monero is underpriced because it is actually useful and can support that price.

Bitcoin is worth something, just not 11k in my opinion.

Re: The Bitcoin Flaw: Monero Rising

#36

> How would you feel if you were required to print, in legible block letters, your full name on every dollar bill before you spent it? I already do this with 99% of my purchases. I almost solely purchase through credit card, which is a contractual obligation that my clearly identified person will allow a financial institution to pay for this coffee on my behalf, on promise I will pay that institution back at a later…

Not entirely equivalent, since the coffee shop does not receive your purchase history.

They probably will soon. Or the equivalent in the form of services backed by that history, like rewards programs.

Re: The Bitcoin Flaw: Monero Rising

#37
Is there any particular reason why, assuming that the author is correct and that people will eventually want to migrate to a more anonymous currency, that Monero will be the winner and not some other anonymous currency?

(I don't pay close attention to cryptocurrencies, so this is the first time I've read of Monero.)

Re: The Bitcoin Flaw: Monero Rising

#38

I agree with the premise that fungibility is important to Bitcoin's success, but I disagree that Bitcoin is 'flawed' or has in some way lost to Monero. There was an update yesterday on the progress being made on privacy features in Bitcoin: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017... On a related note, I am happy about the conservative and careful pace of development of Bitcoin. I don't want my st…

Bitcoin may not be dead but it is certainly being destroyed on its original purpose (being money). The only reason to hold Bitcoin is the naive hope that more suckers (not even a better word for them) pay you to hold something they think will go higher (again: suckers) There are networks that are faster / more secure than Bitcoin and therefore more valuable as usable money (which is what Bitcoin was supposed to be) B…

If someone is willing to speculate (let's say suspecting BTC will burst, but not for a while yet), and that person is using spare money and cashing out after a week or two even, how are they a sucker?

Any person who's asked me about getting some Bitcoin has seemed perfectly aware of what could happen.

I got BTC at $900 (now approaching $12k). First got Monero at $70, and it's close to $250. Maybe I'll pick the wrong time to sell, but it's a risk I'm aware of. I've lost much more money on speculative stocks (backed by actual businesses with real assets) than I have put into this.

For anyone throwing in $100 just to be part of the adventure, I'd bet they've spent more than that on a single night getting drunk at the bar.

Re: The Bitcoin Flaw: Monero Rising

#39
post #10
post #8

What are the current crop of cryptocurrencies that are truly anonymous? The list I have so far is: Aeon, DASH, Komodo, Monero , NAV Coin, PIVX, Verge, Zcash, Zcoin, and ZenCash. Any others? Edit: Added Aeon

Aeon. It's basically Monero-Light.

What makes it Light?

Re: The Bitcoin Flaw: Monero Rising

#40
The author fails to understand that fungibility is tangential at best to anonymity.

fungibility is based on the equality of a unit of stuff. short selling works with fungibility, you hire some shares of IBM. Once you have them you sell them, when the price drops you buy them back. The hire period ends and you return the same number of shares, but not the same shares. This works because it is agreed that shares of the same time in a company are all agreed to have the same value.

but, this principle works with anything that has uniformity of price. This is determined by the trading environment, and not the thing being traded. Stocks nominally have unique IDs, at least for accounting purposes (otherwise how do you stop unauthorised re-issuing, and distribute dividends)

Gold is fungible, as pointed out, but anonymous gold is worth less than gold with provenance. To prove that gold hasn't been messed with is expensive, so keeping accurate and verifiable chains of custody is required for fast trade of gold.

Sure one can melt down gold and make it anonymous, but thats expensive. You can barter with your local drug lord using physical gold bullion, but you'll need to be damn sure its verifiably pure, so you'd better hope the serial number and foundry stamped on the front checks out.

Its far quicker to just transfer the ownership of bullion in a known vault, and that has certain guarantees about custody, purity and security of product.

In short, the author fundamentally fails to understand basic commerce, let alone post enlightenment stock markets.

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