Live data from Hacker News

Among the Tax Bill’s Biggest Losers: High-Income, Blue State Taxpayers

nytimes.com

61–70 of 275 posts

Re: Among the Tax Bill’s Biggest Losers: High-Income, Blue State Taxpayers

#61
post #5

I'm a highish earning single homeowner in Alameda County (Bay Area) -- between the Mortgage Interest deduction, the Property Tax deduction, and the State Income Tax deduction being slated for removal, my taxable income is about to go up something like $60k, which is a large chunk of my actual income. This tax bill utterly fucks me, to the point I'm considering selling my house to get ahead of the inevitable housing c…

Why should you get to make all those deductions in the first place? Just because you bought an expensive house doesn't mean you should pay that much less tax than a renter living in the same county as you.

Re: Among the Tax Bill’s Biggest Losers: High-Income, Blue State Taxpayers

#62
post #5

I'm a highish earning single homeowner in Alameda County (Bay Area) -- between the Mortgage Interest deduction, the Property Tax deduction, and the State Income Tax deduction being slated for removal, my taxable income is about to go up something like $60k, which is a large chunk of my actual income. This tax bill utterly fucks me, to the point I'm considering selling my house to get ahead of the inevitable housing c…

When the federal government gives high tax states tax cuts, that means those areas give less to the federal government, meaning those generally rich states end up getting federally subsidized by the poorer states. How does _that_ make sense? Shouldn't the richer areas help pay for the poor? Why not do something about the high taxes in your state instead?

> When the federal government gives high tax states tax cuts, that means those areas give less to the federal government, meaning those generally rich states end up getting federally subsidized by the poorer states.

Except those generally rich states are, in fact, currently net federal tax subsidizers of the rest of the country; this tax reform will actually reduce that because the rich people who are concentrated on those states will get huge tax cuts, whereas poorer people in the rest of the country will get big tax increases.

> Shouldn't the richer areas help pay for the poor?

So, what you are saying is we shouldn't adopt a tax “reform” that massively reduces progressivity transferring tax burden from the rich too the poor?

If so, on that much we agree.

Re: Among the Tax Bill’s Biggest Losers: High-Income, Blue State Taxpayers

#63
post #23

Overall this bill seems really, really bad and poorly implemented (and costly). But as a renter in the bay area, I do like that increasing the standard deduction and reducing some of the other popular deductions will decrease the large tax break homeowners have been receiving. In my opinion we have been treating renters unfairly by letting homeowners deduct so much mortgage interest, property taxes, etc. We already i…

It sounds like you actually don’t think the bill is bad.

Re: Among the Tax Bill’s Biggest Losers: High-Income, Blue State Taxpayers

#64
post #36
post #5

I'm a highish earning single homeowner in Alameda County (Bay Area) -- between the Mortgage Interest deduction, the Property Tax deduction, and the State Income Tax deduction being slated for removal, my taxable income is about to go up something like $60k, which is a large chunk of my actual income. This tax bill utterly fucks me, to the point I'm considering selling my house to get ahead of the inevitable housing c…

The counter argument is, why should the rest of the country and generally lower income tax payers be subsidizing the high State taxes, high property taxes, and higher mortgage deductions on your expensive homes? If you want to lower your State tax bill then lobby your State representatives. If you want to lower your property taxes then lobby your local officials. Or vote with your feet and move somewhere that doesn’t…

California already pays more to the federal government than it takes out. It is subsidizing poorer states, not the other way around.

Re: Among the Tax Bill’s Biggest Losers: High-Income, Blue State Taxpayers

#65
post #14
post #5

I'm a highish earning single homeowner in Alameda County (Bay Area) -- between the Mortgage Interest deduction, the Property Tax deduction, and the State Income Tax deduction being slated for removal, my taxable income is about to go up something like $60k, which is a large chunk of my actual income. This tax bill utterly fucks me, to the point I'm considering selling my house to get ahead of the inevitable housing c…

People have been clamoring for more taxes on the rich. Well, this is what it looks like. Oh wait! You didn't think you were rich, right?

No, this is a hit on the upper middle class. The actual rich aren't feeling the pain.

Re: Among the Tax Bill’s Biggest Losers: High-Income, Blue State Taxpayers

#66
post #14
post #5

I'm a highish earning single homeowner in Alameda County (Bay Area) -- between the Mortgage Interest deduction, the Property Tax deduction, and the State Income Tax deduction being slated for removal, my taxable income is about to go up something like $60k, which is a large chunk of my actual income. This tax bill utterly fucks me, to the point I'm considering selling my house to get ahead of the inevitable housing c…

People have been clamoring for more taxes on the rich. Well, this is what it looks like. Oh wait! You didn't think you were rich, right?

> People have been clamoring for more taxes on the rich.

But this “tax reform”, in net, does exactly the opposite.

Re: Among the Tax Bill’s Biggest Losers: High-Income, Blue State Taxpayers

#67

I don't see why state taxes should be federally deductible to begin with. Two families both make $250,000 a year. One is in New York and one is in Texas. The family in Texas is carrying more of the federal tax burden than the family in New York. Why? Both are (in theory) receiving the same benefits from the Federal Government and should pay the same in taxes. If you're a progressive this should make even less sense:…

> Both are (in theory) receiving the same benefits from the Federal Government and should pay the same in taxes.

New York gets about $0.80 for every $1 of taxes paid. Texas gets about $1.50. [1]

[1] https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-s...

Re: Among the Tax Bill’s Biggest Losers: High-Income, Blue State Taxpayers

#68
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mortgage interest and property taxes are costs on top of the actual cost of the house. My mortgage itself isn't tax deductible.

It's still a concession to homeowners that renters don't get. We want taxes to be fair, no?

Not really. Trying to make taxes fit some arbitrary definition of fair is most of the problem. We should be looking at macro effects on our whole economy when making decisions on taxes.

Re: Among the Tax Bill’s Biggest Losers: High-Income, Blue State Taxpayers

#69

First, this article would've been much better off using medians instead of means. High earner outliers tend to skew stats like these. Second, it's interesting to see people who were in favor of tax increases suddenly change their mind when it hits them. While I agree that tax cuts for the rich seem unnecessary, some tax hikes for the upper middle-class aren't out of line compared with a Democrat led tax plan. I wonde…

A tax rise to ensure that the poor do not go hungry or that social security and medicare are funded is one thing. A tax rise designed solely to fund a lowering of the corporate tax rate and targeted at blue states? An entirely different thing.

"It only makes sense to me of states with higher taxes use less federal resources." Which is entirely the case.

Re: Among the Tax Bill’s Biggest Losers: High-Income, Blue State Taxpayers

#70
post #5

I'm a highish earning single homeowner in Alameda County (Bay Area) -- between the Mortgage Interest deduction, the Property Tax deduction, and the State Income Tax deduction being slated for removal, my taxable income is about to go up something like $60k, which is a large chunk of my actual income. This tax bill utterly fucks me, to the point I'm considering selling my house to get ahead of the inevitable housing c…

it is not theft to remove a deduction. state and city taxes should never have been deductible before this. That deduction favored those who could itemize, the well off.

People harp all the time on this site about the plight of the poor, the undeserved, and more but damn you guys don't suck. You are damn generous when it comes to some other person's money but have you pay more and it is Armageddon. Quit bemoaning the wealthy and recognize you are one of them. It doesn't take millions to be wealthy in this country and certainly not billions.

As with the city/state tax issue, all deductible taxes favor the wealthy. This takes an otherwise overly progressive tax system to steals it back by slight of hand. Politicians can show the poor who the exploit "see these high rates" and then bury a myriad of breaks in the system to give back to those who provided the funds needed for election.

Hell i am going to get walloped and I will adjust. I qualify for the 7500 EV rebate for my purchase in 17 and I am glad it is going; though for two reasons the first being the rich don't need help buying cars and the second manufactures late to the game should not get the benefit born out by the early adoption manufacturers.

The Joint Committee on Taxation finds no reason to not favor the bill. Deficits we experience don't come because of tax cuts, it comes because baseline budgeting out paces inflation and GDP growth.

Guess what guys, its time we pony up and pay for what we want. We don't get to pontificate on forums all day long. We have to pay the piper just like everyone else and many of us will benefit from the cut as well as suffer some losses but in the end those on the lower brackets will see nearly all their tax burden decreased and isn't that what we all keep saying we want, to help them up?

Post reply on HN