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US Military's Microwave Weapon Can Fry North Korean Missile Electronics

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Re: US Military's Microwave Weapon Can Fry North Korean Missile Electronics

#21

Post by lisper »

This story has been all over the news in the last 24 hours, but it's sending my bogometer well into the yellow because Faraday cages are a simple and effective defense against any electromagnetic interference. (That's why you can safely peer into your microwave oven while it's pouting 1500 watts into your leftover lasagna.) So this feels like a Saddam-has-WMDs-style disinformation campaign to me. It also has a whiff of desperation to it since we really so seem to be pretty helpless to stop NK from developing the ability to deliver nukes to the continental U.S. without more collateral damage to Seoul than the American public is likely willing to accept (to say nothing of the residents of Seoul!)

I fear that the ethos of tell-a-lie-often-enought-and-it-becomes-the-truth has permeated very deeply into the U.S. government. That approach often works in politics. In physics, not so much.

Re: US Military's Microwave Weapon Can Fry North Korean Missile Electronics

#22

Post by mitchellberry »

klodolph wrote: post #18
mitchellberry wrote: post #12

There is not any proven tech that can take down an icbm reliably. This is reassuring propaganda plain and simple. If the US and allies could take down a rocket they'd shoot down every NK test missle just to make a point. Absolutely delusional saying this system can take down consumer drones and then extrapolate that out to a missle that is travelling at speeds measured in machs. Even with drones I don't see how this…

Not arguing about the propaganda point, but there are legitimate reasons for not shooting down test missiles. If you always shoot down test missiles, then NK just has to keep firing test missiles until they build one that doesn't get shot down.

Certainly there are fair reasons for hiding capabilities, and they seem quite adept at determining what is going into the sea or not, but in a war of words environment if it was a certainty as THAAD propenents seem to claim a single shootdown would be a huge PR blow for nk.

It's just not reliable enough to risk and as such is still a last resort measure.

Defending against a nuclear ICBM is not possible to do reliably. It's a sad reality.

Re: US Military's Microwave Weapon Can Fry North Korean Missile Electronics

#23

Post by tomjen3 »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #2

This N. Korea standoff is a tough situation. I cannot help but wonder if satellite weaponry exists that the U.S. could use to laser beam their dear leader? [Edited for clarity]

They had KJI on their video feeds for 20ish minutes when he was at one of the launches.

It will be interesting to see if not blowing him and the missile up will be considered a mistake..

Re: US Military's Microwave Weapon Can Fry North Korean Missile Electronics

#25

Post by clort »

klodolph wrote: post #18
mitchellberry wrote: post #12

There is not any proven tech that can take down an icbm reliably. This is reassuring propaganda plain and simple. If the US and allies could take down a rocket they'd shoot down every NK test missle just to make a point. Absolutely delusional saying this system can take down consumer drones and then extrapolate that out to a missle that is travelling at speeds measured in machs. Even with drones I don't see how this…

Not arguing about the propaganda point, but there are legitimate reasons for not shooting down test missiles. If you always shoot down test missiles, then NK just has to keep firing test missiles until they build one that doesn't get shot down.

or until they run out of money

Re: US Military's Microwave Weapon Can Fry North Korean Missile Electronics

#26

Post by johansch »

mitchellberry wrote: post #19
sandworm101 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about shooting down a rocket. This is about disrupting the launch complex. It's about sending enough energy into a complex that computers, the ones in the offices, stop working reliably enough to launch. It is possible, but imho would require a dish far to large to fit on an aircraft. So I agree that it doesn't exist, that this is propaganda. EM interference is why launch complexes use fiber. You don't wan…

Am just an armchair commentator but surely NK already has hardened facilities prepared for an EMP from a nuclear strike? I don't see how a b52 with a kerosene powered engine is anywhere near capable of delivering that same level of radiation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-electronics_High_Power...

Seems like the weapon can be put in cruise missiles.

Re: US Military's Microwave Weapon Can Fry North Korean Missile Electronics

#27

Post by arethuza »

maxxxxx wrote: post #17
arethuza wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit like the UK plan to assassinate Hitler in 1944 which was cancelled as "he was by then considered to be such a poor strategist that it was believed whoever replaced him would probably do a better job of fighting the Allies" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Foxley

Not doing this was a really bad mistake. I think most of his successors would have tried to find a peace agreement quickly.

By that point the Allies (actually originally just Roosevelt, with the others following along) had insisted on unconditional surrender:

"those Germans — and particularly those German generals — who might have been ready to throw Hitler over, and were able to do so, were discouraged from making the attempt by their inability to extract from the Allies any sort of assurance that such action would improve the treatment meted out to their country."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconditional_surrender

Re: US Military's Microwave Weapon Can Fry North Korean Missile Electronics

#28

Post by LeifCarrotson »

maxxxxx wrote: post #17
arethuza wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit like the UK plan to assassinate Hitler in 1944 which was cancelled as "he was by then considered to be such a poor strategist that it was believed whoever replaced him would probably do a better job of fighting the Allies" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Foxley

Not doing this was a really bad mistake. I think most of his successors would have tried to find a peace agreement quickly.

From the linked article:

> Thornley also argued that Germany was almost defeated and, if Hitler were assassinated, he would become a martyr to some Germans, and possibly give rise to a myth that Germany might have won if Hitler had survived. Since the idea was not only to defeat Germany but to destroy Nazism in general, that would have been a highly undesirable development.

Hitler was an eloquent and persuasive person who effectively represented/exploited Nazi philosophy. There were certainly (secret) critics of his policies and goals, but he was not some kind of sorcerer with a spell over the German population as if, on his assassination, the Axis powers would shake their heads and blink their eyes and say "wait a minute, are we the baddies?"

The same applies even more to modern politics because modern states are not as totalitarian in their removal of critics - they must therefore have stronger supporters. You cannot blame only Donald Trump or Theresa May or Xi Jinping or Angela Merkel or whoever your opponents figurehead may be; they have huge political parties behind them and are backed by huge numbers of constituents who identify with their message. There are surely strong effects from having these leadership positions, but you also need to reach their base with your message.

Re: US Military's Microwave Weapon Can Fry North Korean Missile Electronics

#29

Post by georgeecollins »

klodolph wrote: post #18
mitchellberry wrote: post #12

There is not any proven tech that can take down an icbm reliably. This is reassuring propaganda plain and simple. If the US and allies could take down a rocket they'd shoot down every NK test missle just to make a point. Absolutely delusional saying this system can take down consumer drones and then extrapolate that out to a missle that is travelling at speeds measured in machs. Even with drones I don't see how this…

Not arguing about the propaganda point, but there are legitimate reasons for not shooting down test missiles. If you always shoot down test missiles, then NK just has to keep firing test missiles until they build one that doesn't get shot down.

That is a good point. But you also probably don't want to tell people you have microwave tech so that they develop counter measures.

Re: US Military's Microwave Weapon Can Fry North Korean Missile Electronics

#30

Post by georgeecollins »

clort wrote: post #25
klodolph wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not arguing about the propaganda point, but there are legitimate reasons for not shooting down test missiles. If you always shoot down test missiles, then NK just has to keep firing test missiles until they build one that doesn't get shot down.

or until they run out of money

They have been at this for fifty years, don't hold your breath.
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