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Apple is sharing your facial wireframe with apps

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Apple is sharing your facial wireframe with apps

#131

Post by ben_w »

Osmium wrote: post #19
yeldarb wrote: post #13

I've been playing with the TrueDepth Camera APIs on the iPhone X. Some things I've noticed: 1) The ARKit "Face Mesh" seems to be a standard model that is scaled and skewed to fit your face (for example, it ignores glasses, still works if you put your hand in front of your face, etc). It is _not_ a 3D scan. 2) The "TrueDepth" data is not really all that granular. It seems similar to the depth map you get from the rear…

> 2) The "TrueDepth" data is not really all that granular. It seems similar to the depth map you get from the rear-facing cameras on the "plus" sized models. Here's what the sensor data spits out: https://twitter.com/braddwyer/status/930682879977361408 As @braddwyer himself notes, you can probably get a much better mesh integrating over time. It depends how long it takes to capture a single frame, but I imagine that'…

> And yes ... after all, humans are quite capable of identifying people with high accuracy from 2D photographs. Depth maps are not required for there to be serious privacy issues with such databases.

Yes and no. We’re mostly good at that (with exceptions — I have to see someone a lot before I remember their face), but we evolved for small groups and therere are now enough people that doppelgänger is a profession.

On the other hand, databases are still a problem because collections of timestamped photos can reveal far too much about us once an identity is properly confirmed.

Re: Apple is sharing your facial wireframe with apps

#132

Post by lm2s »

yeldarb wrote: post #13

I've been playing with the TrueDepth Camera APIs on the iPhone X. Some things I've noticed: 1) The ARKit "Face Mesh" seems to be a standard model that is scaled and skewed to fit your face (for example, it ignores glasses, still works if you put your hand in front of your face, etc). It is _not_ a 3D scan. 2) The "TrueDepth" data is not really all that granular. It seems similar to the depth map you get from the rear…

3) Apple is really good at marketing. It's been shown that, even if you cover the TrueDepth camera, features that "require" it still work fine (including Animoji and the apps that I've been developing using the front-facing ARKit APIs).

3.1) The lack of Animoji and front-facing ARKit seems to be a software limitation made for business reasons rather than a hardware limitation. See: Google's Pixel 2 portrait mode photos done using a single front-facing camera that have stacked up well against the ones from the iPhone X.

Does it also work in the dark without the depth camera?

Re: Apple is sharing your facial wireframe with apps

#133

Post by k3a »

teknologist wrote: post #117

Time to switch to Android.

Situation is quite bad for all smartphones.

But for Android there is at least f-droid.org repository made of apps automatically compiled from the source code. I prefer using these apps. And the fact you can install what you want. In iOS you are locked into a censored AppStore and have to pay to get a certificate to run your own app.

There is also a small chance for someone to develop an Android phone with fully open software in the future. There is 0% chance to have an open iPhone.

Re: Apple is sharing your facial wireframe with apps

#134

Post by Double_a_92 »

valine wrote: post #100
yeldarb wrote: post #13

I've been playing with the TrueDepth Camera APIs on the iPhone X. Some things I've noticed: 1) The ARKit "Face Mesh" seems to be a standard model that is scaled and skewed to fit your face (for example, it ignores glasses, still works if you put your hand in front of your face, etc). It is _not_ a 3D scan. 2) The "TrueDepth" data is not really all that granular. It seems similar to the depth map you get from the rear…

I just tried using Animojis with the TrueDepth camera covered. After a second the frame rate drops significantly (to roughly 10 fps) and the character's eyes glitch out. I'm convinced Animojis are doing something with the TrueDepth hardware. It still tracks head movement with just the camera, but its significantly slower and more error prone.

> I'm convinced Animojis are doing something with the TrueDepth hardware

Weren't they specially created to make use of that 3D cam?

Re: Apple is sharing your facial wireframe with apps

#135

Post by apk-d »

esmi wrote: post #118
jakobegger wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re 3) I don’t know any details of Apples implementation, but typically computer vision algorithms integrate data from multiple sensors to generate a 3D model. The more data you have, the more robust the output will be. It’s possible to generate reasonable 3D models of faces from a single photograph. [1] The highest resolution 3D scans I’ve seen are produced by aligning data from multiple high resolution photographies…

A skilled human with a decent tool can also make a pretty good 3D model from one face image in less than 5 minutes. https://youtu.be/Eq0tTzCwXNI

That is not a 3d model, much less a pretty good one.

Re: Apple is sharing your facial wireframe with apps

#136

Post by valine »

Double_a_92 wrote: post #134
valine wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just tried using Animojis with the TrueDepth camera covered. After a second the frame rate drops significantly (to roughly 10 fps) and the character's eyes glitch out. I'm convinced Animojis are doing something with the TrueDepth hardware. It still tracks head movement with just the camera, but its significantly slower and more error prone.

> I'm convinced Animojis are doing something with the TrueDepth hardware Weren't they specially created to make use of that 3D cam?

Yes, but the parent comment was arguing that Animojis are a marketing gimmick, suggesting they could be enabled on other phones without the depth sensing hardware. I was sharing my experience as a counterpoint.

Re: Apple is sharing your facial wireframe with apps

#137

Post by eksemplar »

danielparks wrote: post #123
eksemplar wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure. I mean, I know it's tinfoil and the refusal to open phones for the FBI is debunking it, but we've given Apple a database of our fingerprints and now our facial ids as well as constant real time location data of our whereabouts. It's probably not abused, but how can we really know in the post Snowden world.

Apple has repeatedly stated that Touch ID and Face ID data does not leave the device, including for backups. “Face ID data doesn’t leave your device and is never backed up to iCloud or anywhere else.” ( https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208108 ) “[Your fingerprint data] can’t be accessed by the OS on your device or by any applications running on it. It's never stored on Apple servers, it's never backed up to iCloud o…

Well, 10 years ago I wouldn't have believed that my turned off computer would be used to film me by my own government.

These days, I don't trust any tech company.

Re: Apple is sharing your facial wireframe with apps

#138

Post by briandear »

gaius wrote: post #89

So let me get this straight: you can unlock your iPhone with your face and Apple is giving away a free high-quality 3D scan of your face to anyone who wants it, who may or may not also own a 3D printer?

You don’t have it straight. That isn’t what’s happening.

Re: Apple is sharing your facial wireframe with apps

#139

Post by celeritascelery »

mlindner wrote: post #108
Osmium wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2) The "TrueDepth" data is not really all that granular. It seems similar to the depth map you get from the rear-facing cameras on the "plus" sized models. Here's what the sensor data spits out: https://twitter.com/braddwyer/status/930682879977361408 As @braddwyer himself notes, you can probably get a much better mesh integrating over time. It depends how long it takes to capture a single frame, but I imagine that'…

> And yes ... after all, humans are quite capable of identifying people with high accuracy from 2D photographs. Depth maps are not required for there to be serious privacy issues with such databases. Which would be true if they were actually storing this on the cloud in a form they could access. As far as we know, they are not. That's the point of the "Secure Enclave".

The Secure Enclave doesn’t do much good if you are providing the face map to any developer that wants it.

Re: Apple is sharing your facial wireframe with apps

#140

Post by celeritascelery »

angry_octet wrote: post #129
IgorPartola wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that work with people with non standard features? Think glass eyes, acid burns, missing fingers, etc.

It doesn't. I'd be curious to know if face unlock had problems with vision impairment, i.e. no gaze vector.

The “require attention" feature can be disabled.
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