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The compelling case for working less

bbc.com

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Re: The compelling case for working less

#71

Post by alkonaut »

gajju3588 wrote: post #40

Disclaimer: Haven't read the full article, but got the gist. I have a counterpoint to this. I am from India where if you work normally you will be spending your life in conditions which are not very healthy for you and your family. Your home will be small and in a society where neighbourhood will be lacking in basic facilities like sanitation, security etc. You might remain happy if you have great friends and a suppo…

The point of these "we all work too much" articles only applies to advanced economies where pretty much everyone could work less, and still live a very very comfortable life. Yet we don't. There is nothing illogical about working an extra hour every day when the reward is tangible (as in your example). For me however the difference between working 6 hours and 8 every day is very small in terms of reward and enormous in terms of well being.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#72

Post by dcow »

ionstraub wrote: post #36
spyckie2 wrote: post #7

I'm convinced that our decision for how much effort to exert on work is not governed by the rational part of our brain. It's part primal - fear of insecurity and belonging to a social structure - part ego - accomplishment as confirmation of existence and your salary as a concrete number to compare favorably to others - and part culture and habit. I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. H…

Does it work the other way, too? If I am made aware of someone who makes half of my salary for the 'same' work does it follow that I am happier? I don't find this very convincing. This would only seem to be the case where the amount of effort is tied to one's salary, but for hourly wages this is much less likely to be true. I also don't think it's a kind of built-in part of our brain structure; this feels like a very…

I think the point is, when society values money, and considering a job yields money, it's not hard to see why people overwork themselves. And to call such a primal desire for money human nature is somewhat reductionist and thus rather unsubstantiated, naturally.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#73

Post by JetSpiegel »

ekianjo wrote: post #29
ako wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Fear of insecurity" was mentioned, and quoted by you.

It's not just fear of insecurity. I mentioned planning for your kids' future, which is not about insecurity at all.

The fear that your kid will be a failure if you don't have money so send her to MIT is pure insecurity.

It's better to work 40 hours, follow and help her in school than work 80h and be the stranger that throws money over a wall to send her away from home under the guise of "it is good for you, trust me".

Re: The compelling case for working less

#74

Post by [deleted] »

twblalock wrote: post #42
b0rsuk wrote: post #24

You don't have to convince employees, who are eager to try it and unwind. How do you convince employers ? Surely not by pointing out THEY don't work as much as we do.

My managers, and their managers, have worked longer hours than me at every job I've ever had, including retail jobs in high school, academia in grad school, and now software engineering. Once you hit the C-Suite you don't even think about work-life balance, because your work is your entire life. I know people like that, who have enough money to retire in their 40s and live in luxury without ever working again, yet th…

[deleted]

Re: The compelling case for working less

#75

Post by JetSpiegel »

j7ake wrote: post #60
gerhardi wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that trained athletes actually know better of their limits and when to not push for the maximum intensity than “regular office worker” in their corresponding field. The fatigue and risks of near future subpar performance are more concrete than with office work. Also in any field, it ofcourse requires time, work and experience to become actually good enough to give yourself some slack.

I agree athletes train to maximise their performance on the games that matter. I'm not sure what the equivalent is for the office worker.

When the boss is watching...

Re: The compelling case for working less

#76

Post by spyckie2 »

kough wrote: post #12
spyckie2 wrote: post #7

I'm convinced that our decision for how much effort to exert on work is not governed by the rational part of our brain. It's part primal - fear of insecurity and belonging to a social structure - part ego - accomplishment as confirmation of existence and your salary as a concrete number to compare favorably to others - and part culture and habit. I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. H…

> Humans are happy if they are relatively well off compared to what they know. This is super true. I've been congratulating myself all month on my new job, paying me BIG BUCKS, compared to my friends. Well, just found out an old friend of mine also found a new job, getting payed literally twice as much as me. Now I'm in a funk and it's irrational and stupid but I can't help but look at the same number in a totally di…

I think this and many other problems are just too new.

It's not that we can't cope - human beings have amazing mechanisms to adapt to harsh situations - but rather so many problems are new enough that there is little prior societal understanding and defense for it.

When a problem is widespread enough to affect many members of society, the practices and solutions to that problem eventually enter the social vocabulary and become common knowledge. Social culture is filled with antibodies to past problems - college, seat belts, smoking, fitness - just to name a few things ingrained in society that passively guards our well being.

It's when new problems that affect entire generations emerge too quickly, there's not yet good common advice for how to deal.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#77

Post by TeMPOraL »

kough wrote: post #12
spyckie2 wrote: post #7

I'm convinced that our decision for how much effort to exert on work is not governed by the rational part of our brain. It's part primal - fear of insecurity and belonging to a social structure - part ego - accomplishment as confirmation of existence and your salary as a concrete number to compare favorably to others - and part culture and habit. I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. H…

> Humans are happy if they are relatively well off compared to what they know. This is super true. I've been congratulating myself all month on my new job, paying me BIG BUCKS, compared to my friends. Well, just found out an old friend of mine also found a new job, getting payed literally twice as much as me. Now I'm in a funk and it's irrational and stupid but I can't help but look at the same number in a totally di…

Oh the many ways in which one can make themselves unhappy. For me it's not about how much I earn, but the kind of things I get to do.

The other day I've seen a trailer of a series on Netflix - Mars Generation, I think? I couldn't even finish it, because when I saw those kids doing the things I always wanted, it made me think about all similar realizations - that e.g. my university started doing things with rockets and satellites just after I graduated, that left and right I see cool spacetech opportunities offered to students only, etc. I'm having a hard time dealing with the fact I was just born few years too early. It's a stupid, irrational jealousy.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#78

Post by spyckie2 »

CM30 wrote: post #52
spyckie2 wrote: post #7

I'm convinced that our decision for how much effort to exert on work is not governed by the rational part of our brain. It's part primal - fear of insecurity and belonging to a social structure - part ego - accomplishment as confirmation of existence and your salary as a concrete number to compare favorably to others - and part culture and habit. I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. H…

> I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. Humans are happy if they are relatively well off compared to what they know. With smaller societies, we know less and thus expect less from ourselves and our situations. But it becomes more difficult to remain this way as small societies get replaced with large social networks. This sort of logic is also part of why social media can be so damagin…

The glass half-full version of this is humans have an increased awareness and participation in pushing the limits of innovation, novelty and progress.

But yes, the half-empty version is the depressing awareness that you're not really "good" at anything.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#79

Post by vincnetas »

spicymaki wrote: post #68
camillomiller wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. That’s why browsing Facebook and Instagram are basically the worst thing you can do when you have self-esteem problems.

Correction: Browsing Facebook and Instagram are basically the worst things you can do.

If you are trying to be precise, no, there are worse things. Poke out your own eye with a finger, for example.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#80

Post by aninhumer »

kungito wrote: post #31
taneq wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not irrational or stupid. It's human. We've evolved to be not merely effective but also competitive.

Isn't competitiveness at the core of biological evolution and not something we have "evolved to"?

I think the confusion here is due to the semantic ambiguity of "competitiveness".

A tournament can be called competitive and a participant can be called competitive, but these don't mean quite the same thing.

Evolution is inherently competitive, but humans become competitive by evolution.

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