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How we saved money by replacing Mixpanel with BigQuery and K8S

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Re: How we saved money by replacing Mixpanel with BigQuery and K8S

#2
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Re: How we saved money by replacing Mixpanel with BigQuery and K8S

#4
Just to flesh out the vendor comparison...

Five weeks of, say, three engineers with $150k salaries ($200k fully loaded) is $60k. People say that the majority of software is after initial development. Let's say 20% is development [0]. That means this project costs $300k total and lives for 5 years before the team decides to rewrite it. That brings us to $60k / year.

This is good savings! My general guidance to folks thinking about this sort of project is that you should implement a vendor and see how you like it. The reason being, MixPanel does a LOT more than this tool, and buying a vendor can help you figure out the subset of features that you actually need. Once you have a clear requirement list, you have a clearly scoped project and can hammer it out relatively easily to get that cost savings.

Beware of thinking that you can do this for $X,000 / year on your own, or get it right on the first shot. There's a reason MixPanel (and any other vendor) has so many engineers. You're paying them to have already made the mistakes that you're about to make.

[0] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3477706/development-cost...

Re: How we saved money by replacing Mixpanel with BigQuery and K8S

#5

240K - that's huge! I can't believe MixPanel gets that expensive - wow considering their plans are like: * FREE * 999 a year * Contact us That number 3 must be really spooky!

I had the opposite reaction. If you're in a big city in the US, $240K is the cost including overhead of one, maybe two engineers. If running this in-house takes up a total of a full-time engineering load (i.e., if the team maintaining this wants to add headcount to run this and maintain prior commitments), you haven't saved very much and you might be net negative.

(The math may be different in different job markets, in which case, yes, it makes sense not to pay a startup that's paying SF wages to its own employees.)

Re: How we saved money by replacing Mixpanel with BigQuery and K8S

#6
post #4

Just to flesh out the vendor comparison... Five weeks of, say, three engineers with $150k salaries ($200k fully loaded) is $60k. People say that the majority of software is after initial development. Let's say 20% is development [0]. That means this project costs $300k total and lives for 5 years before the team decides to rewrite it. That brings us to $60k / year. This is good savings! My general guidance to folks t…

The whole thing is a big ball of mud. If you commit to a vendor you risk vendor-lock in. If you commit to hand-roll you risk runaway deadlines, feature creep, and a slew of other threats. Once you pick one or the other and get it to a business functional level you lose all momentum and willpower to pivot to the best solution now that you have a "good enough" approach.

Re: How we saved money by replacing Mixpanel with BigQuery and K8S

#7
Built a similar thing last year -- nginx (openresty) + lua -> NSQ -> python streaming -> BQ

Using Metabase for visualization.

The other key benefit is you can warehouse the rest of your data in BQ as well -- where it can be easily linked to your non-event data; marketing data from other systems, etc.

Re: How we saved money by replacing Mixpanel with BigQuery and K8S

#8
This article epitomizes the old adage: software engineers are terrible at estimating. I have absolutely no stake in Mixpanel, and it has its own flaws, but seeing something as misleading as this on the front page of HN means I have to write a clarifying, if not somewhat edifying, comment =/

1. Right off the bat, there's the cost of building all of this + maintaining it. Something like Mixpanel at scale requires at least two, if not three, engineers: one for client libraries, one for infrastructure (which the OP blogs about), and another for the web app (dashboard, real-time user stream, etc.) To be sure, not everyone needs all features of Mixpanel. To be really sure, nobody needs all features of any SaaS tools. But if you really want to compare apples to apples, then you have to account for these. To hire competent software engineers who can collaborate closely and maintain a complex piece of analytics software requires at least $100k per year, if not twice that based on locale. That's at least $300k and more like $600k right there.

2. The whole point of something like Mixpanel is to make analytics accessible to non-engineers. In their case, it's primarily product people and secondarily marketing/customer success. In any case, building an analytics/data product consumable by non-technical people is hard and takes way more than assembling a couple of cloud infrastructure together. If there's one reason Mixpanel is still in business, that's because of this.

3. Finally, the OP has a valid point which should have been highlighted more, if not to make their own biases more clear: Mixpanel's diminishing differentiation is dev shops/consultancies' opportunity. It is indeed incredible that a dev shop can build even a third of Mixpanel's functionality by leveraging GCP components. Mixpanel had to build a lot of its core backend systems from the ground up, including its original key-value store. Just this year, they fully migrated to Google Cloud Platform themselves, suggesting that there's really little room for differentiation among analytics vendors at the level of infrastructure components (Mixpanel's arch-nemesis, Amplitude, leverages Apache Kafka and various AWS components, most notably Amazon Redshift, heavily)

With all of this being said, one thing remains true: the most expensive cost of any software is people running them and the dependencies created around them. These may not show up as line items, but they sure are deeply embedded in your total cost.

Re: How we saved money by replacing Mixpanel with BigQuery and K8S

#10
post #5

240K - that's huge! I can't believe MixPanel gets that expensive - wow considering their plans are like: * FREE * 999 a year * Contact us That number 3 must be really spooky!

I had the opposite reaction. If you're in a big city in the US, $240K is the cost including overhead of one, maybe two engineers. If running this in-house takes up a total of a full-time engineering load (i.e., if the team maintaining this wants to add headcount to run this and maintain prior commitments), you haven't saved very much and you might be net negative. (The math may be different in different job markets,…

Yeah. It's definitely not a clear-cut net benefit. To be fair though, they are utilizing hosted services (so they don't need to hire kubernetes experts) and the company likely already has a team of engineers maintaining N services. Maybe maintaining N+1 services is within their engineering capacity.
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