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In a Venezuela Ravaged by Inflation, ‘a Race for Survival’

nytimes.com

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Re: In a Venezuela Ravaged by Inflation, ‘a Race for Survival’

#91

Post by mmirate »

pistoriusp wrote: post #82
mmirate wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The richest people have produced orders of magnitude more value than those under the poverty line. And yes I'm talking about value for their customers. You know, the people who paid for their products and thereby made them rich.

"value" at the cost of the environment isn't value. It's debt.

Ah, true, the EPA has been rather incompetent in fully charging the proprietors of certain industrial processes for their pollution of the environment. But I don't see why that problem can only be fixed by socialism. (Indeed my prior expectation is that this problem is easier to fix it with a societal structure that places greater importance on private property rather than abolishing it.)

Re: In a Venezuela Ravaged by Inflation, ‘a Race for Survival’

#92

Post by EGreg »

gaius wrote: post #73
EGreg wrote: post #46

“Something so simple as taking money out of a bank machine or buying a coffee or taking a taxi has become a race for survival,” Mr. Sandoval said. How much of this race to the ATM etc. would be a problem if the money supply was digital and everyone could use their phone to make purchases. I would like to propose a thought experiment and solicit opinions on whether situations like this can be mitigated by using a LOCA…

Then the prices would be marked up constantly but there also would be a constant increase in the money supply This is called (hyper)inflation. They already have that, no new app required.

You're describing the problem, not the solution.

If all people have to run to the ATM faster than they take a piss so they can buy food then making payments digital is an immediate improvement.

But that's just the first part. Did you read the part about issuing 2X the amount of currency to your own people for every X you issue to pay back foreign interests?

I want substantive feedback on my UBI proposal!

Re: In a Venezuela Ravaged by Inflation, ‘a Race for Survival’

#93

Post by door »

mmirate wrote: post #72
cdancette wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think that the huge inequalities we have today in developed countries are a "huge success"? When the richest man in the world has 100B$, and yet 12% of Americans live under the poverty line?

Yes. The richest people have produced orders of magnitude more value than those under the poverty line. And yes I'm talking about value for their customers. You know, the people who paid for their products and thereby made them rich.

haha what

they've produced more shareholder value, but they sure as hell haven't produced more value for the world

Re: In a Venezuela Ravaged by Inflation, ‘a Race for Survival’

#94

Post by tuna-piano »

cdancette wrote: post #58
tuna-piano wrote: post #50

This whole situation is so sad, because it is 100% human caused. This is not a natural disaster! Socialism does not work and it is not moral. Hundreds of millions of people have died and suffered under this economic and governmental system, and many more will die in Venezuela to re-learn this lesson. And yet, even in the face of overwhelming evidence, the appeal of socialism still somehow permeates to otherwise succe…

So you think that the huge inequalities we have today in developed countries are a "huge success"? When the richest man in the world has 100B$, and yet 12% of Americans live under the poverty line?

Poverty is the problem to me, not inequality. I like the hypothetical of "If 1% of people had 100 yachts, and 99% of people had 1 yacht each, would that be a problem?"

And the type of poverty we have in the developed world is very different than the type of poverty they have in Socialist countries. Poor in the USA have enough to eat, TVs, etc. Of course life is tough, but of course there's not the kind of suffering you see in Venezuela.

Poor people choose with their feet, and they choose more capitalism! The opposite way is almost absurd to think about.

-How many of the 12% in poverty in Flordia flee to Cuba for free Cuban healthcare?

-How many of the poor in West Berlin fled to East Berlin?

-How many of the poor in Hong Kong fled to Communist China?

-How many poor in Colombia are fleeing to Venezuela?

We can have the reasonable discussions on whether Medicaid spending should be increased, but the praise of Chavez and true socialism (which I see in a new Netflix Documentary, lots of Michael Moore stuff, Bernie Sanders rhetoric, Antifa, etc) is disconcerting to me.

Re: In a Venezuela Ravaged by Inflation, ‘a Race for Survival’

#95

Post by sctb »

Many of the comments in this thread violate this guideline:

> Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents.

This is particularly difficult to avoid on these controversial topics, but we have to try because the quality of the discussion when we do this is way below what this site exists for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: In a Venezuela Ravaged by Inflation, ‘a Race for Survival’

#96

Post by trendia »

namlem wrote: post #51
seibelj wrote: post #4

When the solution to every problem is more government, more redistribution, and higher taxes, this is the inevitable result. A tragedy caused 100% by politics

Cuba is a socialist country, and while they have plenty of problems, you don't see the kind of situation we're seeing in Venezuela. I don't think socialism is a good system, but we should at least try to honestly understand the reasons for what is happening in Venezuela, rather than blindly chalking it up to some loosely understood specter of "socialism".

Cuba has had terrible shortages and starvation, including one especially bad situation in the 90's.

> I would leave my house at 8:30 in the morning with a pathetic excuse for a breakfast in my stomach: a bread roll and a glass of sugared water (milk was a luxury at the time, and all food was expensive). The dollar, which was illegal at the time, came to be valued at 120 Cuban pesos. Anyone caught carrying that currency risked a long time behind bars.

http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=102373

Re: In a Venezuela Ravaged by Inflation, ‘a Race for Survival’

#98

Post by mmirate »

RubenSandwich wrote: post #78
jbm wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am actually a bit concerned with how this reached the top page with so many low effort comments. Regardless of whether it is the case that socialist policies are responsible for this situation, it’s weird that there are a sudden upswing in the strange, almost sneering style of comment that is littering the comment area. I almost expect a list of Wikipedia links about Zimbabwe and other countries to follow.

Agreed. If governments are invested in changing opinions on other Internet forums, why not here? These comments are very low quality and seem to me to be writen to stir up political screaming matches, not actual debate.

Well, then I'm still waiting for my paycheck from Uncle Sam. :)

Re: In a Venezuela Ravaged by Inflation, ‘a Race for Survival’

#99

Post by foldr »

tuna-piano wrote: post #94
cdancette wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think that the huge inequalities we have today in developed countries are a "huge success"? When the richest man in the world has 100B$, and yet 12% of Americans live under the poverty line?

Poverty is the problem to me, not inequality. I like the hypothetical of "If 1% of people had 100 yachts, and 99% of people had 1 yacht each, would that be a problem?" And the type of poverty we have in the developed world is very different than the type of poverty they have in Socialist countries. Poor in the USA have enough to eat, TVs, etc. Of course life is tough, but of course there's not the kind of suffering y…

> Poor in the USA have enough to eat

This is a surprisingly persistent myth. A quick google search will show you that this is not the case.

http://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/impact-of-hu...

Re: In a Venezuela Ravaged by Inflation, ‘a Race for Survival’

#100

Post by friedButter »

indubitable wrote: post #42

I hate to also add to the cliche, but I think the description of one of the pictures in this article really emphasizes that perhaps it's not just a cliche: "Over 100 people lined up in Caracas to purchase price-controlled chicken. Chicken is highly sought after, yet very difficult to find for sale at affordable prices in Venezuela." Chickens are absurdly easy to farm. They're basically meat grass. Put them in a fence…

>What is preventing, or perhaps more likely - disincentivizing, people of even moderate means from doing this?

Its more of a lack of incentive than disincentive. When making profit is essentially outlawed ( https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/15/venezuela-army... ), what would motivate people to work and generate stuff?

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