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In a Venezuela Ravaged by Inflation, ‘a Race for Survival’

nytimes.com

61–70 of 143 posts

Re: In a Venezuela Ravaged by Inflation, ‘a Race for Survival’

#61
post #49

The amount of comments on this thread decrying 'socialism' with very pithy comments is concerning. I guess the whole internet is infected with trolls now, especially political ones...

I think the word is a trigger in US politics somehow (since the Cold War and maybe McCarthyism?). While outside it's just a normal political current (and most of the western democracies besides the US will recognize and embrace some elements of socialism).

> (and most of the western democracies besides the US will recognize and embrace some elements of socialism).

Indeed. Quite unfortunate for those other democracies.

Re: In a Venezuela Ravaged by Inflation, ‘a Race for Survival’

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every socialist country is or will be a cautionary tale.

How are you defining socialist country, here?

I'll let whistlecrackers make his own definition, but I'd say:

- problem is not that a country has some socialist policies

- problem is not that a country has a party with "socialism" in its name in the government

- problems definitely start to appear when a country has an autocratic government, whether it was originally "socialist" or "bolivarian" or whatever; an autocratic government then typically adapts some sort of "socialism" in its name in order to justify the autocracy, the choking of free markets, the political redistribution of resources, ad-hoc top-down responses to the economic problems that eventually come up, and the suppression of free media to hide the increasing problems.

Re: In a Venezuela Ravaged by Inflation, ‘a Race for Survival’

#63
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Most resource-rich countries are terribly governed. Google “the resource curse.”

Argentina isn't even resource-rich, it's just large. Great for ranching, few mineral or energy resources. And it's not exactly a secret that petro states like Venezuela have fallen on hard times in the past decade.

There was once a saying "as rich as an Argentine"

Re: In a Venezuela Ravaged by Inflation, ‘a Race for Survival’

#65
post #4

When the solution to every problem is more government, more redistribution, and higher taxes, this is the inevitable result. A tragedy caused 100% by politics

Nah, this is the result of corruption. We should be worried in the US, this could be our future.

Sorry, this is a result of socialism. Chavez undercut the middle class by giving or selling staple goods to the poor voting class, subsidized by the oil wealth. This undercut the middle class and anyone who sold things based on market supply and demand.

Source: I studied abroad there in 2001-2002 and I witnessed the overthrow of Chavez and learned a lot from the people in addition to studying the economics of the situation afterwards.

Re: In a Venezuela Ravaged by Inflation, ‘a Race for Survival’

#66

The amount of comments on this thread decrying 'socialism' with very pithy comments is concerning. I guess the whole internet is infected with trolls now, especially political ones...

When would it be appropriate to decry socialism? If ever? I want to be ready for when that day comes.

My comment is not in favor of any political system, but rather wrote to showcase how the word 'socialism' seems to be used by internet trolls to destroy debate with noise.

Re: In a Venezuela Ravaged by Inflation, ‘a Race for Survival’

#67

The amount of comments on this thread decrying 'socialism' with very pithy comments is concerning. I guess the whole internet is infected with trolls now, especially political ones...

I just deleted a comment I was going to make on another HN article that was basically a long political rant against the Republicans. Ugh. It's not valuable when it goes either way, and I doubt there's this huge lack of sympathy for the disaster. If anything, we all saw it coming. It's horrible. When I read these other posts I don't see people not caring, I see people quite frustrated because they do care.

There's this line of debate that goes "Since I cannot argue with you on merit, I will call you heartless and rude"

It's designed to shut people down without consideration for the merits of what they are saying.

It kinda works sometimes. Sure enough, there are plenty of folks who are heartless and rude on the net. But when I read comments that begin with "This whole situation is so sad, because it is 100% human caused. This is not a natural disaster! Socialism does not work and it is not moral..."

I nod my head. This doesn't mean I care less for the people involved. In fact, I care more. What a terrible thing to bring on yourselves for what appeared like a noble cause at first! And how many other South American countries have skated with this very disaster, most of the time coming out better than these folks did.

This is a horrible disaster and I wished I could do something about it.

You don't have to be a troll to point out that this has been a train wreck everybody saw coming, and the disaster continues to play out with more and more harm befalling others -- all for predictable reasons. That's not trolling. That's just where we are.

Re: In a Venezuela Ravaged by Inflation, ‘a Race for Survival’

#68
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're confusing socialism and communism. A lot of Western European countries have or have had in the past decades socialist regimes.

The Western European countries are social democracies - not in socialism as a transitional phase as defined by Marx and Engels.

I don't think e.g. wikipedia agrees with such a restrictive view (there are many form of socialism). Also many of those countries have their main left wing party named "socialist party".

(I think it's cultural difference between US and rest of world where the US considers socialism ~= communism)

Re: In a Venezuela Ravaged by Inflation, ‘a Race for Survival’

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When would it be appropriate to decry socialism? If ever? I want to be ready for when that day comes.

My comment is not in favor of any political system, but rather wrote to showcase how the word 'socialism' seems to be used by internet trolls to destroy debate with noise.

Well, the question still stands.
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