Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

btcmanager.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 187 posts

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#121

Post by moduspol »

politician wrote: post #107
moduspol wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This link gives a little more background: https://news.bitcoin.com/proposed-u-s-legislation-may-crimin... > A ‘prepaid access device’ means an electronic device or vehicle, such as a card, plate, code, number, electronic serial number, mobile identification number, personal identification number, or other instrument, that provides a portal to funds or the value of funds that have been paid in advance and can be retri…

That description covers literally every thing that has ever been sold to a buyer. The act of buying something makes it "prepaid access device" since it may possibly in the future be used to retrieve funds, e.g. via a sale, and may be transferred at some point in the future.

Yep. Something tells me that was the intention.

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#122

Post by cma »

tehlike wrote: post #75
ransom1538 wrote: post #68

General question. Currently money laundering is illegal (concealing money gained from unlawful activity) [i] and the IRS already asks you specifically if you own assets [digital currency] [ii], so i am honestly curious what this would change. If you own bitcoin and are not disclosing this to the government [irs] of such assets you are already breaking federal law. This just adds charges? Or does this help fund the fe…

Currently, irs asks you if you have ownership on a foreign account, or finra or something asks you to declare money over 10k when you enter country. They also know your bank accounts by its centralized nature. Now, if they ask you your wallets, not declaring could be considered unlawful if this bill passes. Also technically, wince cryptocoins are commodities, or treated as such, you still need to declare them as a pr…

> you still need to declare them as a profit on tax forms

Not until you realize the gain, right? (at least unless you mined them)

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#123

Post by tehlike »

cma wrote: post #122
tehlike wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently, irs asks you if you have ownership on a foreign account, or finra or something asks you to declare money over 10k when you enter country. They also know your bank accounts by its centralized nature. Now, if they ask you your wallets, not declaring could be considered unlawful if this bill passes. Also technically, wince cryptocoins are commodities, or treated as such, you still need to declare them as a pr…

> you still need to declare them as a profit on tax forms Not until you realize the gain, right? (at least unless you mined them)

mining is interesting, because mining is probably 'earned income' at the time the coin is rewarded. Then you have capital gains when you convert.

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#124

Post by tehlike »

sp821543 wrote: post #118
tehlike wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it mean to sell? People have already generated lots of taxable event when they started diversifying into other coins for example.

It is my understanding that trading one for another, (BTC to ETH, for example), is a taxable event thus has to be reported.

Yes, exactly the way i am thinking (and probably IRS will think).

This is the way it happens for stocks and pretty much everything.

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#125

Post by rubyfan »

rubyfan wrote: post #78
ransom1538 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. It is an asset. So you only disclose when you sell?

You don’t disclose assets to the IRS, only income. If you disclose your income and pay tax on it then convert it to BTC today you aren’t obliged to disclose it. In theory after you sell it you’d have a capital gain to disclose.

If I pay taxes on my income earned in USD, then exchange it for Euros. If the Euros had a better exchange rate to dollars later, would I have to declare a capital gain if I exchange back for USD? What if instead of exchanging I just spent the Euros?

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#126

Post by School-Cotton »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #119
heimatau wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't apply to crypto. Only have to report if the crypto is sold.

Please stop using crypto to mean cryptographic currency. Crypto has a well defined meaning.

Words can mean different things and in this case the meaning is obvious from the context.

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#128

Post by bobbybreakdanc »

So, if this is taken to mean ownership or control of cryptocurrency wallet, what does that imply?

What defines ownership? Access? If someone holds a key to a house that doesn't mean they own the house.

What defines control? If a key is destroyed, and no one else owns that key, is is control lost? What if the key is lost? Is control lost until the key is recovered?

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#129

Post by thatcat »

krapp wrote: post #39
CryptoPunk wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears flagged to me but I was able to see it before. Maybe it took a while to show up, so the user edited the comment to complain about Marxist moderation, unaware that it had not been removed by mods, causing the mods to remove it..?

It's flagged and dead, so you may need showdead on to see it, but it's still there. AFAIK the mods never actually delete content from the site. I don't even know if they can.

They do actually remove threads sometimes, I've seen an off topic flame war disappear pretty quickly.

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#130

Post by tehlike »

rothbardrand wrote: post #24

One of the great things about bitcoin is it gives libertarianism a business model... and it's right out of SEK3's New Libertarian Manifesto--which was written in the 1970s-- SEK game theorized out what would happen with the Soviet Union, and proved to be correct 20 years later... now we are seeing the exact same game plan here in the USA with bitcoin and this law. But they are too late. Most likely outcome is this wi…

Nobody will leave the country, i think that's a very bold prediction. The ones that would leave would be hidden bitcoin millionaires/billionaires.

I agree on the "they are too late" point, but think of it this way: US already knew about your financials. This law doesn't change that.

Post reply on HN