Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

btcmanager.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 187 posts

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#21

Post by rothbardrand »

mooman219 wrote: post #18
crb002 wrote: post #14

How do you define "digital currency"? Under US legal tender laws BTC isn't money. You can incur capital gains when you exchange BTC for something over the basis you acquired it for, but you essentially gave smoothing of value away for something ephemeral.

I'm waiting for the law to get so vague, they accidentally cover in-app/in-game currencies with legislation that requires it to be regulated.

I suspect money laundering is already there.... they don't care, its all selective prosecution anyway. The purpose of the laws is not to stop crimes, but to make so many things a crime that if you resist tyranny they can discredit you and jail you.

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#22

Post by jonreem »

rothbardrand wrote: post #17
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #7

Where's the problem? Can someone explain? It's not like this bans owning Bitcoin.

Your grandpa dies and you inherit his estate. There's a bunch of boxes and you go thru a lot of them until you get to one of his war stuff. It is too much and you put it aside. Years later, you are prosecuted under this law because it turns out he had a hardware wallet in that box. That's the problem, and it doesn't matter if you think it's not something that is likely. Truth of the matter is, you committed no crime.…

I don't see how this is any different from discovering years later that he had 10 pounds of gold buried in the backyard, a situation I'm sure you have some legal recourse in.

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#24

Post by rothbardrand »

One of the great things about bitcoin is it gives libertarianism a business model... and it's right out of SEK3's New Libertarian Manifesto--which was written in the 1970s-- SEK game theorized out what would happen with the Soviet Union, and proved to be correct 20 years later... now we are seeing the exact same game plan here in the USA with bitcoin and this law. But they are too late. Most likely outcome is this will get reversed or widely ignored.... but if they are successful, everyone smart will start leaving the country... or they will create an arab spring like response here, eroding respect for the government and police.

Gay rights couldn't be resisted in the age of the internet when everyone knew their cousin or that guy they went to work with was gay.... will be the same thing with bitcoin.

Question is, just how violent and authoritarian the tyrants in DC want to get.

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#25

Post by adventured »

jgh wrote: post #5
multibit wrote: post #2

Of course the justification is to "stop money laundering and terrorist financing".

Eh did you notice that huge tax cut they just gave the ultra-rich? They gotta start digging through the couch to pay for it ;)

The US has the most progressive taxation system among all developed nations. Nothing about that fundamental progressiveness has changed due to the tax cuts. The top 20% are paying 95% of all income taxes, that will continue.

For example, the US is radically more progressive on taxation than all of Scandinavia:

https://taxfoundation.org/how-scandinavian-countries-pay-the...

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#26

Post by failrate »

adventured wrote: post #25
jgh wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh did you notice that huge tax cut they just gave the ultra-rich? They gotta start digging through the couch to pay for it ;)

The US has the most progressive taxation system among all developed nations. Nothing about that fundamental progressiveness has changed due to the tax cuts. The top 20% are paying 95% of all income taxes, that will continue. For example, the US is radically more progressive on taxation than all of Scandinavia: https://taxfoundation.org/how-scandinavian-countries-pay-the...

*had. It's just been blown up.

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#27

Post by [deleted] »

cmurf wrote: post #20
JoshTriplett wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the problem with being required to send a plaintext copy of every encrypted email to various government agencies around the world? It's not like that would ban using encrypted email.

What the problem with being required to report your income from various government agencies around the world? It's not like that would ban governments from existing, surely some people will continue to voluntarily pay some taxes on the honor system.

[deleted]

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#28

Post by almostApatriot1 »

nlperguiy wrote: post #8
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #7

Where's the problem? Can someone explain? It's not like this bans owning Bitcoin.

2nd layer solutions would provide fungibility and ultimate privacy. Cryptocurrencies like Zcash, Dash or Monero, especially Monero, could be illegal.

I say good. Those coins don't need to go mainstream so they can be held, pumped, and dumped. Let people use them for buying drugs.

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#29

Post by CryptoPunk »

tfha wrote: post #10

Is there any evidence of Bitcoin being used by terrorist groups? Wouldn't that be a terrible idea for the terrorists?

Good digital currency will be useful to terrorists just as a good internet is. But just as the internet creates a more connected and prosperous world that reduces conflict and terrorism overall, so will digital currency.

Also, it reduces the threats posed by governments against their own people. Government repression, like that seen in Venezuela or for a more extreme example, North Korea, can kill far more people than non-state terrorism, and tools that empower individuals help resist that.

Re: US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

#30

Post by lordCarbonFiber »

mirimir wrote: post #9
21 wrote: post #3

Bank secrecy is dead* To imagine that bitcoin could change that or not abide is foolishness. * for poor people anyway, with poor meaning < $10 mil which affords you lawyers and offshore shell companies

Well, bank secrecy is as dead as governments can make it, for obvious reasons. However, for cryptocurrencies, it's mainly exchange interfaces with meatspace currencies that are hard to keep private. If you use local wallets like Electrum, transact via Tor, mix thoroughly, and generally practice good OPSEC, your personas and their cryptocurrency can be as anonymous as you like. But only as long as you maintain compart…

So long as you never use your currency to buy anything you've got a great anonymous currency. Sounds very useful.
Post reply on HN