US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill • Hacker News Board

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#61

Post by pmoriarty » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 9:25 AM UTC

briandear wrote: post #44

shams93 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is protest has been criminalized. The people who protested Trump's inauguration are facing what amounts to life in federal prison. Yes there was one car damaged but the Nazis who's protest lead to the death of that young woman face no charges.

And the Baltimore rioters? Police actually let them destroy property. And who is facing life in prison protesting the Trump inauguration? And what was the purpose of protesting the inauguration? I get it you are MAD and you want to break things. But did you vote? How many of those protesters did? Statistically, very few. You get the government you deserve.

"who is facing life in prison protesting the Trump inauguration?"

Here you go:

"More than 200 people who were arrested on Trump’s inauguration day risk up to 60 years of jail. Meanwhile, the white supremacists in Charlottesville walk free"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/22/donald...

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#62

Post by anigbrowl » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 9:27 AM UTC

briandear wrote: post #44

shams93 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is protest has been criminalized. The people who protested Trump's inauguration are facing what amounts to life in federal prison. Yes there was one car damaged but the Nazis who's protest lead to the death of that young woman face no charges.

And the Baltimore rioters? Police actually let them destroy property. And who is facing life in prison protesting the Trump inauguration? And what was the purpose of protesting the inauguration? I get it you are MAD and you want to break things. But did you vote? How many of those protesters did? Statistically, very few. You get the government you deserve.

You may not be aware that people are being charged not so much with breaking things but being part of a crowd in which some people broke things. And yes, the potential sentences run into decades despite the extremely minor nature of the property damage.

A slanted editorial but one grounded in fact rather than a particular ideology: http://georgetownvoice.com/2017/12/01/j20-defendants-face-a-...

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#63

Post by leifaffles » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 9:28 AM UTC

Here's a sampling of the top comments in this thread:

* "protesting is virtually impossible"

* "The law making process is so clearly broken"

* "society will be warped into some dysfunctional dystopian end game"

* "the US doesn't have enough accountability for its leaders"

* "digital technology delivering us a single party state"

* "Dystopian police state here we come"

* "protest has been criminalized. The people who protested Trump's inauguration are facing what amounts to life in federal prison."

Which are all just elaborate ways of crying "I don't like this bill. It must be unfair!".

I'm gonna break something to you: it's not unfair. Stop being an immature baby.

Republicans control the House, the Senate, and the Presidency. That's a result of multiple successful midterm elections and the recent presidential election.

If you don't like this bill, go vote for someone else in November instead of offering your elaborate theories of how US politics is "fundamentally broken" because you didn't get your way.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#64

Post by anigbrowl » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 9:30 AM UTC

briandear wrote: post #58

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a large extent, the broken parts of US politics stem from the lack of actual written rules. Many things that should be codified are actually "gentlemen's agreements", where people agree to act in good faith. Today's show on the Senate floor was the logical conclusion of an entire political party deciding to break every aspect of that unstated agreement,

Oh right and Obamacare didn’t do the exact same thing? What goes around..

Please stop repeating that obvious canard. It's insulting to your fellow HNers to repeat known counterfactual claims.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#65

Post by labster » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 9:32 AM UTC

leifaffles wrote: post #63

Here's a sampling of the top comments in this thread: * "protesting is virtually impossible" * "The law making process is so clearly broken" * "society will be warped into some dysfunctional dystopian end game" * "the US doesn't have enough accountability for its leaders" * "digital technology delivering us a single party state" * "Dystopian police state here we come" * "protest has been criminalized. The people who…

Elections in which the majority of voters voted against the current President, as well as for the opposition party in Congress. US politics is fundamentally broken because the majority does not get its way, nor does the party getting the lion's share of votes get a say in major policy.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#66

Post by uniacid » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 9:33 AM UTC

danieltillett wrote: post #41

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard operating procedure when American oligarchs feel threatened is war and racial/ethnic/religious division to distract the rubes. So probably quite a few people should be worried. I like your optimism though.

This sort of thing has been used for the last 40 years and its effectiveness is drawing to an end. Nobody believes anything the oligarchs say anymore. You can only pull on a rubber band for so long before it eventually breaks and smacks you in the face. The band is now very, very tight. The next economic downturn risks unleashing something that no amount of money can control.

> The next economic downturn risks unleashing something that no amount of money can control.

More like we'll be in such debt that no amount of tax increase will save us for decades? if you think some how people are going to suddenly revolt against the system then I wouldn't hold my breath... I didn't see anyone with pitchforks and torches back during 2008, I sure don't expect anything now from this lazy and increasingly misinformed and uneducated society.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#67

Post by anigbrowl » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 9:33 AM UTC

Judgmentality wrote: post #59

danieltillett wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of thing has been used for the last 40 years and its effectiveness is drawing to an end. Nobody believes anything the oligarchs say anymore. You can only pull on a rubber band for so long before it eventually breaks and smacks you in the face. The band is now very, very tight. The next economic downturn risks unleashing something that no amount of money can control.

> Nobody believes anything the oligarchs say anymore. And yet Donald Trump was elected president.

The fact that people put a game show host of his ilk in that office is the death of the institutional canary.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#68

Post by leifaffles » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 9:34 AM UTC

labster wrote: post #65

leifaffles wrote: post #63

Here's a sampling of the top comments in this thread: * "protesting is virtually impossible" * "The law making process is so clearly broken" * "society will be warped into some dysfunctional dystopian end game" * "the US doesn't have enough accountability for its leaders" * "digital technology delivering us a single party state" * "Dystopian police state here we come" * "protest has been criminalized. The people who…

Elections in which the majority of voters voted against the current President, as well as for the opposition party in Congress. US politics is fundamentally broken because the majority does not get its way, nor does the party getting the lion's share of votes get a say in major policy.

US politics was intentionally designed such that the majority doesn't get its way. It's the single major innovation in liberal political philosophy in the past 500 years.

Saying "it's not democratic!" isn't a useful comment.

We know.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#69

Post by mcny » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 9:36 AM UTC

WillPostForFood wrote: post #39

domoritz wrote: post #4

It's sickening how large corporations make more and more money but pay almost no taxes because (through the money) they have so much influence on politics.

One of the main reasons large corporations pay no tax is that they hide the money in other countries with lower corporate tax rates. You can argue that it is a race to the bottom, or ineffective for other reasons, but the lower corporate tax rate is an attempt to deal with the issue, and get a cut of that money, albeit at a lower rate.

I think we need to talk about this in more detail.

Let's say some company like Google has income all across the world. People click ads in Germany. Some German company pays Google €1. Google doesn't want to pay US taxes on it. It "parks" this money in Germany.

I think that's different from let's say some American company has some income $100 from another American company. But we set up a fake company in a tax free country and says we had to spend $100 in "intellectual property" thus our profit is zero so we don't pay taxes.

I am not an accountant so please correct me if I am wrong in these scenarios.

I don't quite understand tax policy to be honest. For example: tax rate. Is it really just random numbers that people agree on? It just doesn't seem any of this is based on science. More like everyone is trying to get what they can.

Here is another one: if I click an ad on Google for Google Chrome, does Google pay itself for the ad amount? If so, do they owe sales tax on that transaction? How foes this work? Is it possible for us to tax revenue instead of taxing profits (perhaps at a lower rate)?

I think part of our problem is our addiction to deductions and credits. If people want to simplify the tax code, we should try to eliminate deductions and credits.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#70

Post by danieltillett » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 9:37 AM UTC

Judgmentality wrote: post #59

danieltillett wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of thing has been used for the last 40 years and its effectiveness is drawing to an end. Nobody believes anything the oligarchs say anymore. You can only pull on a rubber band for so long before it eventually breaks and smacks you in the face. The band is now very, very tight. The next economic downturn risks unleashing something that no amount of money can control.

> Nobody believes anything the oligarchs say anymore. And yet Donald Trump was elected president.

He was not elected because of support of the oligarchs. Jeb Bush was the sort of President they wanted.

I think people underestimate how much of a break Donald is from the past - not because of who he is, but because of the way he was elected. Someone with real political skill is going to emerge from this desire for major change and if you are a member of the 0.01% you should be worried.