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Tezos founders push for legal bailout from Swiss foundation

reuters.com

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Re: Tezos founders push for legal bailout from Swiss foundation

#31

Post by touchofevil »

isubkhankulov wrote: post #28
touchofevil wrote: post #27

If you like the idea of Tezos, have a look at Cardano. It has on-chain governance voting, formal verification, and the ability to upgrade the protocol without the need for hard forks. Basically, all the stuff that got me interested in the Tezos project. https://www.cardanohub.org/en/what-is-cardano/ In the interest of full disclosure, I do own some Cardano.

Thanks for the full disclosure. Good luck with your investment but the comments section for this article is probably not a good place to pump coins.

I don't think that letting people who are interested in Tezos know about a coin with very similar features is "pumping" the currency. Tezos has some really interesting features, but they have stumbled with the ICO and delayed their release. As someone who was waiting for Tezos to launch I was excited to hear about Cardano and I'm sure there are other Tezos enthusiasts here who are happy to learn about the existence of similar coin. To say that I'm "pumping" the coin implies that I will dump the coin, when I'm really just interested in the Tezos technology, which is also present in Cardano.

Re: Tezos founders push for legal bailout from Swiss foundation

#32

Post by hisabness »

stoev wrote: post #4

I know that ICOs get a lot of negativity on HN. Sure, a lot of them deserve it, but not all ICOs are started for the sole purpose of raising cash that they otherwise wouldn't be able to raise. ICOs as a form of funding are equally likely to be manipulated as traditional VC funding following trends and hypes (one might argue that they ICO investors are even more gullible to dishonest founders since they are generally…

what you're missing is why would people invest in an ICO then sue before the project is completely dead? just asking for regulation and trouble, while still losing your investment. i guess the attorneys will make money.

Re: Tezos founders push for legal bailout from Swiss foundation

#33

Post by igorgue »

staunch wrote: post #20
socratesone wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an easy but lazy reduction, and not accurate. - They raised from the public - Founder comp tied to release of a product that works - They are focused on making a product that works, not on optical theatrics (in fact one of their biggest weaknesses is they've been horrible at optics)

> - They raised from the public Not quite right. They raised from their own investors and the public, which may be part of the problem. If their own investors bought into their own ICO to "seed" it, which tricked the public into thinking there was genuine demand, that might constitute fraud.

Ummm doesn’t a regular VC founded startup that IPOs does the exact same thing?

Some of them without even making money... actually loosing money!

Re: Tezos founders push for legal bailout from Swiss foundation

#34

Post by def_true_false »

chrisco255 wrote: post #19
fiatjaf wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't remember a single ICO that has brought anything useful to the market yet. You can say Ethereum, but it wasn't an ICO properly speaking. Even if it was, a single good example in hundreds isn't enough. Ripple didn't have an ICO, Bitcoin Cash didn't, Zcash didn't, Monero didn't, Stellar didn't.

Qtum has shipped and met all its promises so far: https://qtum.org/en/ Basic Attention Tokens are already integrated in Brave browser: https://basicattentiontoken.org/

BAT is a borderline scam. Previous discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15722299

Re: Tezos founders push for legal bailout from Swiss foundation

#35

Post by [deleted] »

fiatjaf wrote: post #5
stoev wrote: post #4

I know that ICOs get a lot of negativity on HN. Sure, a lot of them deserve it, but not all ICOs are started for the sole purpose of raising cash that they otherwise wouldn't be able to raise. ICOs as a form of funding are equally likely to be manipulated as traditional VC funding following trends and hypes (one might argue that they ICO investors are even more gullible to dishonest founders since they are generally…

I can't remember a single ICO that has brought anything useful to the market yet. You can say Ethereum, but it wasn't an ICO properly speaking. Even if it was, a single good example in hundreds isn't enough. Ripple didn't have an ICO, Bitcoin Cash didn't, Zcash didn't, Monero didn't, Stellar didn't.

[deleted]

Re: Tezos founders push for legal bailout from Swiss foundation

#36

Post by noddy1 »

hisabness wrote: post #32
stoev wrote: post #4

I know that ICOs get a lot of negativity on HN. Sure, a lot of them deserve it, but not all ICOs are started for the sole purpose of raising cash that they otherwise wouldn't be able to raise. ICOs as a form of funding are equally likely to be manipulated as traditional VC funding following trends and hypes (one might argue that they ICO investors are even more gullible to dishonest founders since they are generally…

what you're missing is why would people invest in an ICO then sue before the project is completely dead? just asking for regulation and trouble, while still losing your investment. i guess the attorneys will make money.

When the underlying value of the ETH/BTC has appreciated significantly, and the likely value of the Tezos token has plummeted, trying to extract core investment is reasonable.

Personally I would do it quietly, with good legal backing, and as a single entity or with a small group of investors rather than a large class action - and reach an early settlement to get our own investment back without causing too much of a stir for other investors.

Re: Tezos founders push for legal bailout from Swiss foundation

#37

Post by igorgue »

fiatjaf wrote: post #5
stoev wrote: post #4

I know that ICOs get a lot of negativity on HN. Sure, a lot of them deserve it, but not all ICOs are started for the sole purpose of raising cash that they otherwise wouldn't be able to raise. ICOs as a form of funding are equally likely to be manipulated as traditional VC funding following trends and hypes (one might argue that they ICO investors are even more gullible to dishonest founders since they are generally…

I can't remember a single ICO that has brought anything useful to the market yet. You can say Ethereum, but it wasn't an ICO properly speaking. Even if it was, a single good example in hundreds isn't enough. Ripple didn't have an ICO, Bitcoin Cash didn't, Zcash didn't, Monero didn't, Stellar didn't.

Who was born first the chicken or the egg?

And Ethereum did a crowdsale. On Counterparty and Ommi. It’s literally in the first paragraph of their Wikipedia article:

>> Ethereum was proposed in late 2013 by Vitalik Buterin, a cryptocurrency researcher and programmer. Development was funded by an online crowdsale between July and August 2014.[5] The system went live on 30 July 2015, with 11.9 million coins "premined" for the crowdsale.[6] This accounts for approximately 13 percent of the total circulating supply

Re: Tezos founders push for legal bailout from Swiss foundation

#38

Post by noddy1 »

fiatjaf wrote: post #5
stoev wrote: post #4

I know that ICOs get a lot of negativity on HN. Sure, a lot of them deserve it, but not all ICOs are started for the sole purpose of raising cash that they otherwise wouldn't be able to raise. ICOs as a form of funding are equally likely to be manipulated as traditional VC funding following trends and hypes (one might argue that they ICO investors are even more gullible to dishonest founders since they are generally…

I can't remember a single ICO that has brought anything useful to the market yet. You can say Ethereum, but it wasn't an ICO properly speaking. Even if it was, a single good example in hundreds isn't enough. Ripple didn't have an ICO, Bitcoin Cash didn't, Zcash didn't, Monero didn't, Stellar didn't.

Ironically the only ethereum dApp which people actually use - EtherDelta decentralized exchange - was never ICO'd and makes piles of money.

The incentives for token sales are to raise as much Eth as you can, spend as little of it as possible on the actual project while watching its value appreciate, then either have a product launch that semi-fails or have some good excuse why the project just couldn't work for some reason while minimizing the chance that people bring legal action against the project.

Re: Tezos founders push for legal bailout from Swiss foundation

#39

Post by jessaustin »

igorgue wrote: post #33
staunch wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - They raised from the public Not quite right. They raised from their own investors and the public, which may be part of the problem. If their own investors bought into their own ICO to "seed" it, which tricked the public into thinking there was genuine demand, that might constitute fraud.

Ummm doesn’t a regular VC founded startup that IPOs does the exact same thing? Some of them without even making money... actually loosing money!

If a startup never finds any paying customers, it will never IPO. The IPO is a separate step from the initial investment, governed by rules intended to protect the public. ICOs don't seem to represent anything of intrinsic value (e.g. a successful business) so the public probably faces greater danger from unscrupulous behavior.

Re: Tezos founders push for legal bailout from Swiss foundation

#40

Post by fiatjaf »

berberous wrote: post #13
fiatjaf wrote: post #7

Can someone explain briefly the Tezos unique features and why would someone want it? In my understanding it is just a Bitcoin copy that has a voting feature to decide protocol changes.

In addition to on-chain governance you mention (i.e. the built-in voting features to decide protocol changes and avoid the civil war that's going on in Bitcoin world), they use a functional programming language that is supposed to be much safer and easier to code than the Ethereum language.

So it supports arbitrary code execution like Ethereum?
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