Finance dev guy here. Excel's dominance in the field is because it is an _application container_ that _non_ dev people can use. The workflow is this: - old trader guy says to his junior guy: "hey can you look into xxx." - junior trader guy says: "sure I'll make a spreadsheet for it" - old trader guy: "great your model is all I need, let's trade" - several weeks later, IT guy says: "hey you're running a $100m book out…
Finance Pros Say You’ll Have to Pry Excel Out of Their Cold, Dead Hands
171–180 of 317 posts
Re: Finance Pros Say You’ll Have to Pry Excel Out of Their Cold, Dead Hands
#172Finance dev guy here. Excel's dominance in the field is because it is an _application container_ that _non_ dev people can use. The workflow is this: - old trader guy says to his junior guy: "hey can you look into xxx." - junior trader guy says: "sure I'll make a spreadsheet for it" - old trader guy: "great your model is all I need, let's trade" - several weeks later, IT guy says: "hey you're running a $100m book out…
Pharma company - took the manual Excel process and automated the living daylights out of it so that what the departing analyst took days to do would now be done in minutes.
Petrochemical company - took the reports being done in Excel by a petroleum engineer (each taking 2 hours to do each) and automated to allow him to do the reporting for 50 client companies in under a minute.
Whether Excel or Access, these tools will be used by the SMEs and nothing any IT department does will change this. What IT needs to do, is make sure that the models used are accurate and that the spreadsheets and databases are correct.
Most people who use either Excel or Access make interesting blunders in their creations and end up basing decisions on incorrect output from their creations. It takes an experienced and clue-in developer (IT person) to speak with and then analyse the creations to make sure they actually match what is required.
For those of us who do this kind of work, we must understand that the SMEs are those trying to use Excel and Access and that we are there to help them achieve the SME's desired outcome. The SME's need to understand that they are NOT SME's when it comes to Excel and Access, which most seem to never get this point.
Re: Finance Pros Say You’ll Have to Pry Excel Out of Their Cold, Dead Hands
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
Version control in Excel VBA is easy. Just do a Save As..."Mission Critical Finance Model v2.xlsm", then "Mission Critical Finance Model v3.xlsm", then "Mission Critical Finance Model v3a (temp with changes for Jim).xlsm" and then "Mission Critical Finance Model v4 (maybe-trying to merge 3a back-DO NOT USE).xlsm" and so on...
Mission Critical Finance Model v4 FINAL_revised (2).xlsm
Re: Finance Pros Say You’ll Have to Pry Excel Out of Their Cold, Dead Hands
#174Watch some youtube vids of Excel pros moving around the UI quickly. There's no other UI I can think of where so much is being done so quickly except maybe a bash pro. America's favorite villain Martin Shkreli was pretty amazing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFSf5YhYQbw&feature=youtu.be...
ie. what Shkreli is doing there most would do with MSXML + SEC feeds or with the Bloomberg Excel Add-On
Re: Finance Pros Say You’ll Have to Pry Excel Out of Their Cold, Dead Hands
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or it could be like the place I worked where IT made as many hurdles as possible to the installation of new software. So I, as a database marketing associate, linked 4 different CRMs used by different departments together using the magic of Access, Excel and VBA. IT found out when they disabled a library (DAO) because "cryptolockers" could use it, only to break almost every single process at my organization. The IT d…
Version control in Excel VBA is easy. Just do a Save As..."Mission Critical Finance Model v2.xlsm", then "Mission Critical Finance Model v3.xlsm", then "Mission Critical Finance Model v3a (temp with changes for Jim).xlsm" and then "Mission Critical Finance Model v4 (maybe-trying to merge 3a back-DO NOT USE).xlsm" and so on...
Re: Finance Pros Say You’ll Have to Pry Excel Out of Their Cold, Dead Hands
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
Version control in Excel VBA is easy. Just do a Save As..."Mission Critical Finance Model v2.xlsm", then "Mission Critical Finance Model v3.xlsm", then "Mission Critical Finance Model v3a (temp with changes for Jim).xlsm" and then "Mission Critical Finance Model v4 (maybe-trying to merge 3a back-DO NOT USE).xlsm" and so on...
Mission Critical Finance Model v4 FINAL_revised (2).xlsm
Re: Finance Pros Say You’ll Have to Pry Excel Out of Their Cold, Dead Hands
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think pragmatic businesses that employ finance pros / quants are wise to include Excel as an essential part of their product development workflow. Excel is a great prototyping tool, and people are going to use it whether you want them to or not. These folks are motivated by money and don't give a shit about your tool if (they think) it costs them money (or time). Besides that, how many enterprise applications reall…
Ehh I doubt most quants are interacting much with Excel except when they need to work with non-quants. There's not much of a reason to use Excel when you could use something like Pandas instead, plus the Python libraries/environment will make everything non-tabled better to deal with anyway.
Re: Finance Pros Say You’ll Have to Pry Excel Out of Their Cold, Dead Hands
#178Finance dev guy here. Excel's dominance in the field is because it is an _application container_ that _non_ dev people can use. The workflow is this: - old trader guy says to his junior guy: "hey can you look into xxx." - junior trader guy says: "sure I'll make a spreadsheet for it" - old trader guy: "great your model is all I need, let's trade" - several weeks later, IT guy says: "hey you're running a $100m book out…
Shameless plug: I am a founder of AlphaSheets, a company working on solving all of these issues. It's quite scary (building a spreadsheet is like boiling an ocean) but our mission feels very meaningful, we're well-funded, and we are now stable and serving real users.
A big problem in finance workflows is that there is a tradeoff between several factors: correctness, adoption / ease-of-use, rapid prototyping, and power. We aim to solve several of these major problems. We've built a real-time collaborative, browser-based spreadsheet from the ground up that supports Python, R, and SQL in addition to Excel expressions.
Correctness is substantially addressed, because you don't need to use VLOOKUP or mutative VBA macros anymore. Your data comes in live, and you can reference tables in Python as opposed to individual cells. A lot of operational risk goes away as well, because the AlphaSheets server is a single source of truth.
We help with adoption of Python and adoption of correct systems as well. You can gradually move to Python in AlphaSheets -- many firms are trying to make a "Python push" and haven't succeeded yet because the only option is to move to Jupyter and that's too much of a disruption. It's less brittle than Excel. The important keyboard shortcuts are there.
And finally, the entire Python ecosystem of tools (pandas, numpy, etc.) and all of R is available, meaning that many pieces of functionality that had to be painstakingly built in-house in VBA and pasted around are simply available out of the box in well-maintained, battle-tested packages.
Our long term plan is to broaden our focus into other situations in which organizations are outgrowing their spreadsheets. We think there's a lot of potential with the spreadsheet interface but the Excel monopoly has prevented meaningful innovation from happening. For example, every BI solution tries to be "self-serve" and "intuitive" these days, but encounters resistance from users who end up sticking with spreadsheets due to their infinite flexibility and immediate familiar appeal.
We hope to bring the spreadsheet in line with the realities of the requirements of the modern data world -- big data, tabular data, the necessity of data cleaning, data prep / ETL, the availability of advanced tooling (stats, ML), better charting -- because we think there's a giant market of people waiting to move to a modernized but familiar spreadsheet.
If there's anyone interested, contact me, because I'd be very interested in chatting! I'm michael at alphasheets dot com :)
Re: Finance Pros Say You’ll Have to Pry Excel Out of Their Cold, Dead Hands
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know your background but "taking an Excel workbook and using that as requirements to drive an implementation" is not speedy. I've done this several times in my career and it's very, very difficult. Not because there is any "idealization", but because the reason the spreadsheet works is because a human is doing half of the work . These spreadsheets are not some "hello world" easy to understand product - they a…
Currently web-ifying a huge pivot table (30+ columns) into a dynamic library SQL report for access via the web. It's a nightmare of horribly complicated aggregate grouping/totalling across many columns. Additionally the original excel sheet made incorrect assumptions, resulting in a re-specification/design of what all the totals actually count. NOT speedy.
So...not as I described then? If you are evaluating assumptions and going back to the drawing board, of course it won't be speedy. The point is that if it's simply a requirement to be implemented as is, it is a quick and speedy process.
And it is. I mean, there are dozens of products that will automate the entire process it's so rote.
Re: Finance Pros Say You’ll Have to Pry Excel Out of Their Cold, Dead Hands
#180Finance pros should be careful what they wish for... Refusing to change will give management a great reason to sack them for AI.