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Software Giant Autodesk to Axe 13% of Global Workforce

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Re: Software Giant Autodesk to Axe 13% of Global Workforce

#61

Lol, I just got an interview offer from Autodesk on Monday via LinkedIn.. Uhh, no thanks.

I've seen that plenty of big companies lay off people with the left hand and continue hiring with the right - usually for different teams on different locations. I'm not as enthusiastic to work in one of those megacorps as I once was, and yes, if they decide to do a layoff round next year you could be affected, but I guess that at the very least you'd have one year of employment there.

I'd still be hesitant. When a company is cutting jobs because they are in trouble, they become somewhat unpredictable. The hiring manager you're talking to may himself be out of job in a couple of weeks.

Example: Someone my wife knows moved to a different state to take a job with a big financial firm (Fidelity) and they got "laid off" before they even started.

Re: Software Giant Autodesk to Axe 13% of Global Workforce

#62
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice not so. The design process is different: in CAD you draw 2D like you would draw by hand. In BIM you don't draw, you build a 3D model. That model will contain all the data about your building (materials, dimensions, etc) and you can analyse it on realtime. With a traditional CAD system (BIM is still CAD - Computer aided design) all data must be gathered manually. Despite BIM existing for a long time, hardw…

Not as big as standard architecture but landscape architecture still seems to be stuck in CAD world and relying on plugins to do its dirty work. It doesn't work out so well with Revit. So there's a market that could use a good product. The issue our office had was getting people to put in the time to go from CAD to Revit. We went big and got a BIM manager too to help with that but even he will confess he thinks the c…

I think BIM's market is large buildings that you are sure will be built. All the rest I would go for CAD or some light BIM (sketchup) without blinking. Setting up a BIM project is time intensive and you have often to fight with the software when you want to go beyond the standards - that's the reason that architects don't 'fall in love' with it and the reason why BIM managers exist.

Re: Software Giant Autodesk to Axe 13% of Global Workforce

#64

What products will this effect? Maya is essentially in maintenance mode, so I don't think that will get any worse... Hopefully these employees land on their feet!

They've announced the majority of cuts involve terminating a few speculative R&D projects and cutting international sales staff.

Maya development doesn't seem slow at all. The new UV toolkit in 2018 is pretty great. On the backend, they migrated to Qt 5 last year, and 2018 introduces major changes to the plugin API aiming for greater stability and backward compatibility.

Re: Software Giant Autodesk to Axe 13% of Global Workforce

#65
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autodesk continuously touts that they are in a big transition from product sales to subscription and that huge growth is just around the corner. Do you discount those claims?

I'm not sure how you can get growth out of subscriptions if their market is effectively saturated. It will prevent complete collapse, but growth?

The growth comes from transitioning from a costly model of hiring hundreds of slick guys in suits trying to convince customers to upgrade every year or so, to a simpler model of collecting credit card data and assuming customers are going to pay annually.

What happens after the transition is a more interesting question.

Re: Software Giant Autodesk to Axe 13% of Global Workforce

#66
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do they manage such abysmal numbers after essentially monopolizing the CAD software market?

Looking at where their problems are on profitability. R&D costs climbed by nearly $200 million versus five years ago (when their sales were higher than they are today). That increase is equivalent to ten percent of their sales now. By itself, that expense gain is nearly enough to wipe out their old decent profit numbers. "Other" SG&A expenses climbed by nearly $200 million as well. They added around 1,700 to 2,000 em…

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Re: Software Giant Autodesk to Axe 13% of Global Workforce

#67
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CATIA is Mechanical CAD right? AutoCAD is for architecture.

CATIA is the defacto industry leader in 3D CAD. AutoCAD is the defacto industry leader in 2D CAD (given got some 3D support too). Though as more and more companies are moving to 3D CAD, they are looking for 3D CAD software built from the ground up for 3D CAD. 3D CAD is not just 3D, it's about parametric geometric kernel, CAM, CAE. AutoDesk's "real 3D CAD" is called Autodesk Inventor. Competitors are SolidWorks, Solid…

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Re: Software Giant Autodesk to Axe 13% of Global Workforce

#68
post #55
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have only picked up development speed in the last 5-8 years or so. There was the previous ten years where things were largely stagnant. They used their market position to scoop up everything industrial design. Hell, they even bought EagleCad.

Yeah, I think they'll have to be on a faster cycle to justify the their new licensing scheme vs the old perpetual ones.

As a person who makes these decisions in an engineering company, I can tell you for the first time management is now coming around to the fact that the autodesk licensing model needs to be contained and reduced. For a good 50% of drafting (perhaps much more), zwcad will do. It has a .NET and lisp dev environment, and many tools run natively. Most importantly, the application can be purchased permanently. The autocad product for almost all drafting is essentially unchanged in 15 years, and yet the yearly licensing cost is now more than the total capital cost that was originally incurred.

Autodesk is really starting to look like they're pricing their own product out of the market. Will it be completely removed? Probably not. But if you can translate CAD formats from consultancies into the format for your work, and then transfer them back, and the solution to doing that costs 50K to develop, and saves you 150K a year, it's hard to ignore. The only reason I think it hasn't happened up until now is the boiling frog situation. But the frog can't take much more heat.

Re: Software Giant Autodesk to Axe 13% of Global Workforce

#69
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I think they'll have to be on a faster cycle to justify the their new licensing scheme vs the old perpetual ones.

As a person who makes these decisions in an engineering company, I can tell you for the first time management is now coming around to the fact that the autodesk licensing model needs to be contained and reduced. For a good 50% of drafting (perhaps much more), zwcad will do. It has a .NET and lisp dev environment, and many tools run natively. Most importantly, the application can be purchased permanently. The autocad…

Thanks for the reply and perspective.

I only helped support an arch/design firm in terms of CAD/Revit. I'm surprised I hadn't heard of this earlier but it wasn't my job to make those decisions and, as much as it was a struggle to get the executives on board with Revit, going to an 'unknown' brand like ZWCAD might have taken some teeth pulling (or maybe an entire root canal). They were also a firm willing to have bought and installed the suit for each year on certain machines.

I think it's great if there is this competitor in the market. Most of the architects experienced in CAD lamented that it was their only option and that instead of improving the product, Autodesk just continued to add different ways of doing the same thing.

Re: Software Giant Autodesk to Axe 13% of Global Workforce

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think of the re-imagining of Solidworks that is https://onshape.com ? Have you tried it?

I heard about it. I have never tried it. I believe the guy that started Solidworks and sold it to Dassault Systemes is behind it. I'll give OnShape a shot this weekend and report back. I like how they have a free tier for public projects. It lowers the cost of entry dramatically for people just want to "feel" out CAD. I remember when I was little, that I had to visit some sketchy websites to "try" out CAD. It's a gre…

I just played with Onshape for a little bit.

My overall impressions are good! The program completely redefines my thoughts for capabilities of DOM based applications and WebGL.

Pros: Use anywhere on any device(Linux)! (DOM Based) Free for personal use. Scripting based design automation seems like first class citizens with the part monitoring and profiling features Sheet metal capabilities are easy and intuitive. Something that I can't say for Solidworks. You can straight up delete things in Onshape, Fusion 360 makes that a bit hard. I like the fact that parts and assemblies are two explicitly different things.(Solidworks does this) It makes it easier for my brain to cut the "pie". Fusion does it a more NX'y way where "a part is a part/assembly". I don't have much experience with surfacing, so I can't comment about that aspect. Git like branch/merge functionality with parts.

Cons:

It ain't the whole widget.. At the end of the day it's "just" a CAD program. Which is fine, but I feel that most consumers are getting "finer" tastes with the advent of "the whole widget" design. Thanks Apple. (I don't mean that in a negative way either.) The thing that blew my mind about Fusion 360, is that CAM is integrated and just works, CLOUD Based FEA/Rendering just works, FEA Analysis it's there, Topological optimization there too. Rendering it's there also.

   I see that on the apps developers on Onshape's store, are taking notice. Now you can download CAM add-on, render add-on, etc. I'm 
   scared that this is going the way of Solidworks/Jira/Confluence. Where you buy the base program. ($100 per month, then add CAM 
   /rendering/FEA separately). That $100 per month now looks like $200 per month. Now you are tied to vendor specific systems. Now you're 
   dependent on vendors for fixing their stuff  when OnShape pushes an update. If the 3rd party vendor folds. Now all your legacy data is 
   effectively worthless. Or if there are problems, then 3rd party vendor blames Onshape, or Onshape blames vendor. 

   If Onshape makes the whole widget, then I have high confidence when an update is pushed, then CAM still works, render still works, and the UI is very 
   similar feeling. It makes me have trust that my "mechanical engineering workflow" just works. 

   When I use my mechanical engineering workflow. I want to be able to go from rough idea to CAD to FEA to render to 2d part drawings to CAM to "Part is 
   literally in my hand". With as little friction as possible. Adobe CC and Fusion 360 do this very well. I feel that with these industries where the data 
   model is incredibly complex. Own the whole pie is a requirement. Does that mean you need to lock-in your users? No. Give them escape hatches so they can use 
   familiar programs at whatever stage. Export as X, works well for this situation. But the main focus is making the UX/UI seamless between CAD/CAM/CAE. Fusion 
   360 in my opinion demolishes onShape in this regard.

   Random side note. In the software engineering field, Companies that control the entire widget is "frowned upon". With good reason. The "data models" are 
   usually only text based (.C, .py, .js, .yaml,etc), and have  open source standards associated with it. Meaning if you write Python in Visual Studio, the 
   same Python code will work in PyCharm. This is good. That means past the IDE stage, The files coming out are "clean and non-propriety", which allows you to 
   use any git-client you want. Git is open source and has a non-proprietary data model. So now you have the choice of using Github,Bitbucket,Gitlabs, etc. If 
   you don't like one, then switching is "painless".

   Same goes for CI (Travis,Pipelines, etc,) To cloud providers (Kubernetes on Google Cloud, AWS, Azure etc). You're never locked in, since the data model at each stage is straightforward (text-based, that is interpreted to commonly agreed upon standards).

   The CAD/CAM/CAE industry is nothing like this....which is why owning the whole widget, until/if common data models become prevalent.

OnShape's value proposition is a bit weak compared to Fusion 360.

Fusion 360 is free under ($100k of revenue per year), $300 a year for basic, and $1500 a year for Ultimate. (Basic will work for like 95% of users).

OnShape is free for personal/non-commercial use and everything needs to be publicly accessible. Then to go from personal to commerical/private. It's $1500 a year...just for CAD. Want the other features that Fusion 360 has? Open your wallet...

Fusion 360 in many respects, functions as a great drug dealer. They give you a little for free. They supply more value for you, as you need it. But the pricing is never so high , where you need to make hard call, and stop using their drugs. You grow with your drug dealer. Onshape is like "Here's enough for one hit", but if you want any more than that. Here's a brick, and I won't give it in little bags so you can give it to your friends at parties. You need to do it yourself....It's also a felony if you screw up when you try to buy in big.

Here's a good use case: I'm an at home inventor that wants to do a Kickstarter/Sharktank product. With OnShape, since it's commercial I need to front $1500 a year to solve only one piece of my product pie. Then more cash after that. With Fusion 360, I pay $0. If it takes off and I make over $100k. Paying $300 bucks a year is literally not a problem.

With this use case: OnShape isn't even on the radar for a CAD product to use.

But I always root for the underdog. But they have some work to do before they can have the same impact as Solidworks when came in out in the 90's. The DOM based app is really cool, and has alot of potential. But I don't plan on doing CAD on my Pixel2. The CAD/CAM/CAE workflow matters an order of magnitude more. Here's the cool thing. All of that can be computed in the DOM, so it can be developed down the line.

For year of 2015+ products, Fusion has the crown now.

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