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Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

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Re: Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

#351

>> “Please upload a photo of yourself that clearly shows your face. We’ll check it and then permanently delete it from our servers.” >> To determine if the account is authentic, Facebook looks at whether the photo is unique. I assume this means that the photo itself is deleted but a one-way hash of it created to test against later. However, if I change one pixel of a picture of my face, A, to produce a new picture of…

Hashes don't necessarily work on the raw bit representation of something. You can have a hash which works on higher level constructs, which for images one solution would be called a perceptual hash.

OK, thanks- I didn't know that. It looks like perceptual hashing can even identify a heavily modified version of an original (e.g. with noise added etc). So what I say about changing a single pixel would definitely not work.

I'm sure it's still possible to steal a picture from someone else's online presence outside of facebook though and upload it as "unique" and facebook won't have any way to know that, unless they scan every other social site (and the rest of the internet, possibly).

And someone could always take a picture of someone else's face, with a bit of social engineering, and use it to get access to their facebok- although I don't think that's the kind of thing facebook want to detect here.

Re: Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

#352
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US isn't the world. "Government Internet IDs" already exist, and there is nothing inherent in them existing that eliminates online anonymity, it just removes it on Facebook (which is exactly the point).

Imagine having to use your government ID to even connect to the internet. Having all your data logged and cataloged to your ID. At one point in time that is what the US government wanted to do. It starts by normalizing the action. Not a world I want to live in.

You're completely de-railing the discussion and trying to respond to this nonsense in any constructive way would only de-rail it further. No amount of strawmen and US-centric "the government wants to enslave us all" propaganda will make me think that the now existing, well working digital ID systems available in the world (not the US) are the work of the illuminati, should be abolished, and/or will be surgically inserted into my brain in the near future.

I made a point that there are already ways for Facebook, in certain countries, to verify the identity of their users, if they so please; and that Facebook will never use these because they'd rather control the system of verification themselves (prioritizing profit, not privacy and integrity of users). They could use the systems already in place and say "you know what, the state of Estonia is telling us this guy is who he says he is, we'll accept that". What you're doing is arguing against government-backed digital identification in any broad definition of the term, and you can have that opinion but it's off topic.

Re: Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

#353
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was clear enough that I mean't that it's obvious why [Facebook will never implement it even in countries where it already exists]. It's not in their interest to do so, because it's not in their interest to protect the privacy of their users.

Just because you could only think of a sarcastic reason why Facebook doesn't want to do it doesn't mean that other reasons for it don't exist. That's precisely what the GP is saying—FB needs to come up with systems that work for literally the whole world.

How is my reason sarcastic? I'm being completely serious. And yes, of course it needs to work world-wide but I think it's naive to think that's the primary reason FB would be doing it. They'd be doing it because they want complete control of the authentication ecosystem.

Re: Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is totally normal, this is for billing and tax issues. Just give an electricity bill.

No, that's not normal (asking for my ID or address). In fact, I created a new battle.net account. Located in Singapore. No address or government ID needed, I just curse the people at Blizzard everytime I have to log out of the SG account to play a game that is linked to my original (DE) account. So they believe me, without verification or anything, when I create an account in Singapore. They consider me a liar and ho…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing for me with Battle.Net I moved to Singapore. Their purchases are region locked (and may they burn in hell for that alone). Tried to change my account's country, but that requires submitting your ID and your address, the latter has to be verified by either being shown on the ID or by .. submitting a utility bill or something related. For a game account. For a change that is irrelevant and only matters becau…

That is totally normal, this is for billing and tax issues. Just give an electricity bill.

That is totally not "normal", at least not where I live (UK).

Banks have asked me for a utility bill as a proof of address when I opened an account, but never after that and nobody else ever has.

Specifically, I have never been asked for proof of identity, or proof of address, when purchasing a service, online or otherwise. Even when I purchase flight, train or boat tickets online, where I have to enter my identity and address details, I've never been asked for proof of those, like a scan of my passport or a utility bill.

That is not normal, stating it is normal is not normal and accepting it as normal is not normal either.

Re: Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

#356
post #151

I used to think richard stallman was just a paranoid lunatic... Well, the more time goes by, the more i think he was just 100% right. It's time to be much much more careful and radical with the path technology is taking us. It's time we all invest a bit of our time to provide real open and benevolent alternatives to facebook, google, amazon, and all the rest, because they're steering internet toward an orwelian night…

Network effects. You and me care. Sadly the vast majority around us bow unquestioningly to demands made by powerful groups like their govt or huge mega-corps. People seem to think these power-centres will always be benevolent and flawless... which history shows is a big mistake to assume.

I wouldn’t put a democratic government on the same level of danger than profit driven mega corps. I’m pro free market, but some corps have reach state-level impact on people lives, and they remain without any kind of overview.

I also don’t want state-run web sites to try to provide alternatives to Google ( like europe tried to do 10 years ago), so i think the foundation model is the perfect structure for that. Economically responsible, but not profit driven.

Re: Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they can verify that after they have found a match. if there is no match you gave them no data of interest. if there is a match then they already have that image anyway and you didn't make your privacy situation worse, except maybe telling them that you claim that is you, now allowing them to associate more images was you, but that's probably an acceptable tradeoff if there is actual revenge porn of you out there.

It's not a simple hash. From Alex Stamos: “There are algorithms that can be used to create a fingerprint of a photo/video that is resilient to simple transforms like resizing.” That doesn't make it clear that they are making use of the powerful classifiers that Facebook has, but it's clearly not md5, either. Regardless, I think your point stands.

My guess would be that they trained an autoencoder network for facial recognition and they use the encoder part for fingerprinting and check images by the decoder part.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoencoder

Re: Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

#358
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Facebook's side needs to verify that the image is you, and that you're not just hashing a photo of the McDonald's logo.

Presumably it’s both; hashing like this is fairly trivial to break if you can access the code.

If the recognition is done by autoencoder network as I suspect, then generative adversarial network could break it easily.

Re: Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

#359

Oh boy, what's bound to be another thread full of "delete your Facebook", the new and improved "I don't own a television" statement. Good for you, some of us actually appreciate the utility value from having a place to plan events and ensure people actually see that sort of thing. That said, this is a completely nonsense "solution" when there's plenty of other ways to perform verification that don't do double duty of…

I have long thought if I'm missing anything by not perusing Facebook event pages or anything. Fortunately within my interests (hifi audio, local jazz, photography and computer special interest group meetings) they all still operate within self-hosted forums or blogs and not in facebook.

Re: Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I am curious was this recently? This is next level bat shit crazy even by FB's own standards.

From Instagram? Yeah this year, in May. Newly signed up account, hadn't even done anything with it. I don't think I'd even followed anyone.

I signed up recently, didn't happen.

Maybe it's region based? Or did they remove it?

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