Google faces UK legal action for bypassing iPhone privacy settings to target ads • Hacker News Board

Re: Google faces UK legal action for bypassing iPhone privacy settings to target ads

#21

Post by ionised » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 10:34 AM UTC

adventured wrote: post #13

ionised wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet has not been like this for two decades. It has been like this since Google and Facebook became ubiquitous, which didn't start until the mid 2000's. Before then, the internet was still the internet, only without most of the data hoovering. I am totally in support of legislation that curtails this kind of thing. This isn't a case of the internet being made worse, it's a case of consumer protections catchin…

I don't know what you're talking about. The Internet has been globally widely open since the mid 1990s (except for a few countries like China), when it comes to commerce. That has only begun to slowly change in the last ten years. Even now, the Internet is still widely globally open. Compliance challenges are still relatively modest. The point is, that's beginning to change at an accelerating rate.

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying.

The internet has been open for over two decades yes, but the ubiquitous surveillance of users and tracking and advertising across various websites and services is something that only really became a reality as Facebook and Google began to dominate.

Again, that seemed to start happening after the mid 2000's.

Re: Google faces UK legal action for bypassing iPhone privacy settings to target ads

#22

Post by alkonaut » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 10:39 AM UTC

dalbasal wrote: post #16

alkonaut wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It'll be realistically impossible to accomplish for smaller entities, so start-ups will be stuck even more than they already are in struggling to reach beyond their local audiences. Wasn't this always the case for businesses? If you are a physical company selling physical things then logistics, legal etc was always a huge barrier to expansion beyond your local market. I think the misconception is that the "normal"…

Normal is however things are/were. Atm, the norms are whatever environment Google, FB, etc. grew up under, over the last decade. Before that, it was even more anarchic. Before that, the internet didn't exist. Global-scale many-to-many media and communications didn't exist. I don't understand the desire to argue for an internet descibed by analogy to phone or radio or somesuch. The comparison isn't that strong, and th…

> Before that, it was even more anarchic. Before that, the internet didn't exist.

Bulk data collection and massive privacy invasions weren't a problem, that's what I'm saying.

> I don't understand the desire to argue for an internet descibed by analogy to phone or radio or somesuch

Not sure that's what I did, but I'm definitely saying that states should be able to regulate/taxate all business, and internet business can't be excluded.

> The HN-er who wants an internet rulebook, I don't get it.

Not sure what your argument is, nor what you thought my argument was. The article is about a company (in this case Google) facing legal action for doing something that was (possibly) against a law somewhere. I think it sounds completely reasonable that this is possible.

Re: Google faces UK legal action for bypassing iPhone privacy settings to target ads

#23

Post by tomalpha » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 10:43 AM UTC

a_imho wrote: post #18

Google told the BBC: "This is not new - we have defended similar cases before. We don't believe it has any merit and we will contest it." Google agreed to pay a record $22.5m (£16.8m) in a case brought by the US Federal Trade Commission (FTC) on the same issue in 2012. It will be interesting how this one ends, here's hoping for a pro consumer verdict.

Likewise. The line immediately after your quote also looks interesting, though clearly not precedent-setting in and of itself:

The firm also settled out of court with a small number of British consumers.

Re: Google faces UK legal action for bypassing iPhone privacy settings to target ads

#24

Post by dalbasal » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 11:07 AM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #22

dalbasal wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normal is however things are/were. Atm, the norms are whatever environment Google, FB, etc. grew up under, over the last decade. Before that, it was even more anarchic. Before that, the internet didn't exist. Global-scale many-to-many media and communications didn't exist. I don't understand the desire to argue for an internet descibed by analogy to phone or radio or somesuch. The comparison isn't that strong, and th…

> Before that, it was even more anarchic. Before that, the internet didn't exist. Bulk data collection and massive privacy invasions weren't a problem, that's what I'm saying. > I don't understand the desire to argue for an internet descibed by analogy to phone or radio or somesuch Not sure that's what I did, but I'm definitely saying that states should be able to regulate/taxate all business, and internet business c…

I was commenting in the context of of the discussion, the article and the commentary (yours and the ones further up).

>>It's going to become increasingly expensive and politically complex to operate an Internet company at Internet scale. ...something something, incumbents will be fine. Like financial services, old media and other markets, the internet is at risk of becoming inaccessible in large part to upstart initiatives, commercial or noncommercial.

Re: Google faces UK legal action for bypassing iPhone privacy settings to target ads

#25

Post by simion314 » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 11:21 AM UTC

adventured wrote: post #4

It's going to become increasingly expensive and politically complex to operate an Internet company at Internet scale. That process of country to country division (legally/politically), will continue to accelerate. Although they're getting the first punches to the face because they're easy and obvious targets, companies like Google or Facebook, will trivially withstand it over time. They can afford whatever compliance…

If you respect the hardest privacy laws everywhere then you are fine, if you want to have different code paths like this guys in EU I can't spam them, I can't store private data without permissions but the other guys there I can do whatever I want but the other guys I can only do X but not Y, I suggest to just respect the best/strongest privacy law, a good product is one that helps people do their work and gain more free time, I do not see how invading privacy will affect good products. P.S. I am wondering what laws made it so today most emails have an Unsubscribe link at the bottom, this is such a good thing, I would hate some companies not adding it for the countries where it is not mandatory.

Re: Google faces UK legal action for bypassing iPhone privacy settings to target ads

#26

Post by SomeStupidPoint » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 11:22 AM UTC

So Google deployed malware against... tens of millions of people?... in order to steal confidential data for profit, by bypassing security mechanisms on those devices as they interacted with Google servers, exceeding authorized access, and using installed code to track the activities of people against their efforts to raise technical barriers?

That sounds like an international criminal act on a scale most malware authors would wet themselves over.

It's also not surprising that the public is getting fed up with the wanton criminality that seems to be embodied by modern capitalism.

Re: Google faces UK legal action for bypassing iPhone privacy settings to target ads

#27

Post by CaptainZapp » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 11:38 AM UTC

adventured wrote: post #4

It's going to become increasingly expensive and politically complex to operate an Internet company at Internet scale. That process of country to country division (legally/politically), will continue to accelerate. Although they're getting the first punches to the face because they're easy and obvious targets, companies like Google or Facebook, will trivially withstand it over time. They can afford whatever compliance…

  It's everyone else that is going to suffer, including all start-ups attempting to offer an Internet-wide service (something that not so long ago could be mostly taken for granted).

If a startup violates the privacy of their users intentionally and witth gusto they deserve to get smacked in the face; hard!

Re: Google faces UK legal action for bypassing iPhone privacy settings to target ads

#28

Post by nl » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 11:50 AM UTC

lozenge wrote: post #14

abdullahi1 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How were they able to set tracking cookies, if the browser had them disabled?

With a technical workaround. The thing is, when does improving browser compatibility count as hacking? Most major websites "hacked" IE with a fake P3P header. This is not that different. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8048306/what-is-the-most... http://alexanderhiggins.com/google-fined-22-5m-for-hacking-s...

I remember commenting long long ago about how the fake P3P header thing will get people in trouble one day. Not sure that one has happened yet though.

Re: Google faces UK legal action for bypassing iPhone privacy settings to target ads

#29

Post by codev » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 12:02 PM UTC

simion314 wrote: post #25

adventured wrote: post #4

It's going to become increasingly expensive and politically complex to operate an Internet company at Internet scale. That process of country to country division (legally/politically), will continue to accelerate. Although they're getting the first punches to the face because they're easy and obvious targets, companies like Google or Facebook, will trivially withstand it over time. They can afford whatever compliance…

If you respect the hardest privacy laws everywhere then you are fine, if you want to have different code paths like this guys in EU I can't spam them, I can't store private data without permissions but the other guys there I can do whatever I want but the other guys I can only do X but not Y, I suggest to just respect the best/strongest privacy law, a good product is one that helps people do their work and gain more…

The law in the US is the CAN-SPAM act in 2003. It requires email to have unsubscribe instructions at the bottom of the email and to take people off the list within 10 days of a request. There are similar laws, many of them stricter, in different jurisdictions.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/can...

Re: Google faces UK legal action for bypassing iPhone privacy settings to target ads

#30

Post by pmlnr » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 12:13 PM UTC

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #26

So Google deployed malware against... tens of millions of people?... in order to steal confidential data for profit, by bypassing security mechanisms on those devices as they interacted with Google servers, exceeding authorized access, and using installed code to track the activities of people against their efforts to raise technical barriers? That sounds like an international criminal act on a scale most malware aut…

I don't know why this is getting downvoted. They did, in fact, acted against someone's setting not to do this, and I completely agree, this is a criminal act, not just a technical glitch.